INT-based martial supporter?

[Feragore]

One of my favourite classes across all d20 systems was the Tactical Warlord in 4e. It was a sub class focused around tactical acumen, supporting others and granting extra attacks using their INT score for checks, rather than shouting motivational quotes at people with CHA.

I had wanted to build something similar for a while but never found the opportunity.

I was hoping the APG would come through, but none of the features appear to fulfill the role. There's the new Marshal but it seems to be very similar to an oratory bard. Investigator has some out-of-combat skill boosting but is relatively selfish in combat (Devise a Strategem) and has a different fluff, being mostly Sherlock Holmes. Theres a couple of new Warfare Lore feats but the Battle Planner feat is entirely selfish too - only granting the planner themself a pre-rolled initiative result.

Did I miss something or is a heavily refluffed Wizard the only way to get that feeling of being a strategic leader - though they're too missing the martial 'lead from the front' flavour the taclord had?

[Michael Sayre]

If marshal doesn't do it for you and 3pp is an option, you might consider the battle lord from Amora Games. It uses drills and tactics and has INT as its key stat.

[masda_gib]

It's a small thing but there is the Battla Planner skill feat (https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=2112) that uses Lore, an INT skill, and can give initiative advantage.

[Feragore]

masda_gib wrote:

It's a small thing but there is the Battla Planner skill feat (https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=2112) that uses Lore, an INT skill, and can give initiative advantage.

Yeah, I mentioned that. It's strange that it doesn't allow you to actually share those plans. Only you can make the initiative roll.

[AnimatedPaper]

In my opinion, the Marshal is a good candidate for eventual conversion into an all up class. You even have the beginnings of class paths with being able to choose either Diplomacy or Intimidate. You could expand on that with Perception, a Lore Skill, or any of the Magic skills for an Eldritch Commander class path.

Actually that might be an interesting homebrew project over the next couple of weeks while I wait for the playtest to come out, heh.

[Archmoon]

AnimatedPaper wrote:

In my opinion, the Marshal is a good candidate for eventual conversion into an all up class. You even have the beginnings of class paths with being able to choose either Diplomacy or Intimidate. You could expand on that with Perception, a Lore Skill, or any of the Magic skills for an Eldritch Commander class path.

Actually that might be an interesting homebrew project over the next couple of weeks while I wait for the playtest to come out, heh.

Yeah, I agree with that. I really wish something like the Marshal would be a full class, along the same lines as the Warlord in 4e or the Commander in 13th Age.

On the other hand, concepts like the Cavalier and the Vigilante do work well as archetypes.

I wonder if that is even a possibility that might cross the designer's minds - For an archetype to be "promoted" to full class?

[Ssalarn]

Archmoon wrote:

I wonder if that is even a possibility that might cross the designer's minds - For an archetype to be "promoted" to full class?

With the ability to infinitely expand an archetype across multiple books, it's relatively unlikely. You've already set the threshold for a significant array of abilities based on there not being a core class that grants them, so you'd end up with weirdness like someone who takes the multiclass archetype getting slower access to certain things than someone who took the original archetype.

Plus, marshal as an archetype instead of a class gives you the ability to attach to a whole bunch of different chassis that suit your character concept. Looking at e.g. Hellknights and Pathfinder Agents, who both have multiple books supporting their archetypes and options, it very likely makes more sense for Paizo to instead go "Oh, this book is set in Taldor and includes jousting rules, lets include a couple pages of new marshal and cavalier feats that play into these themes".

[AnimatedPaper]

Yeah most archetypes work well as archetypes. The Marshal is kind of a special case where there are multiple examples of classes along those lines between 3.-, 4e, 5e, PF1, and Starfinder, but not currently a base class in PF2. There is CLEARLY an interest in a non-magical leader class on both the player and developer side, but they haven't gone ahead and made a full class, or at least not yet.
So while I wouldn't expect quite a direct translation, I would not be shocked if there is eventually a martial support class with abilities similar but not exactly like the Archetype Marshal.