I'm currently playing the Ironfang Invasion AP, and it's been a while since I've been a player and not a GM (and that mostly not with PF recently). I joined the party a bit late, in the second installment of the path and played a Storm Druid for a while.
I've maneuvered that character a bit into a corner ideologically, so I mean to retire him, at least for a while and try with something that doesn't go too much against the grain of both the game and the party. But I'm a bit stumped at what I want to do.
Base info: Starting Lvl 7
Elite Array (15 14 13 12 10 8)
Unchained unified bonuses & secondary skills
Existing party:
- Half-Orc Skald/Dawnflower PrC: Current party face. Song enrages most of the time.
+ Hobgoblin Archer cohort: Didn't do a lot yet, mostly there for RPG purposes
- Half-Orc Hunter w/ Orcish Battlecat: Standard Pounce + Power Attack setup
- Elf Winter Witch Winter Witch: Party (de-)buffer and healer
- Goblin Kineticist: Invisible all the time, quite decent damage output
With the pet and the two half-orcs our frontline is pretty good, the goblin can decimate single enemies quite fast and the witch cackles a lot...
So I don't really need to fill a role. The druid did some blasting and lots of utility work when it came to travel and scouting.
I'm thinking about going mostly martial this time, don't want to do a full 9 lvl prepared caster spell list again, too much online research especially when playing online. That and my dislike of Golarion's gods rules out a cleric.
I thought about tying in the initial invasion and destroyed home town of Phaendar into the character a bit, with either the character being a bit PTSD'd (Tormented Crusader pally?) or the spirits of the dead playing a role (Medium, Id Rager, Ghost Rider).
Other martial roles might doubling down on Dirty Tricks (Untamed Rager + Chernasardo Warden) or sniping (Slayer + Warden?), but I wouldn't mind a more "leading"/officer role, too. But that doesn't necessarily have to be reflected mechanically but could be just RP.
I generally don't like pets & summoning, too many abilities that have strict daily/round limits and cheese.
If you're looking at non-magic leader types then the exemplar brawler fits - but martial flexibility could be more research than you'd like. A freebooter ranger might take a bit of finagling backgrounds to get into the middle of an invasion but makes a fairly good leader. The medium is a bit more magic and with their seance can be a tactical leader too.
A Cavalier could be a solid fit. I quite like the Daring Champion since it drops the mount for other goodies. Order of the Shield/Sword/Flame would make solid choices.
I've looked at brawlers before, the Chernasardo Warden PrC has some bonus feats that still have the regular requirements and at least with that I wouldn't need Int 13 (I'm not exactly blessed with high ability scores). I'd be okay with some feat research, both personal and teamwork.
And I did have a look at the Daring Champion, possibly combined with Hooded Champion as an entry to the Warden class. Could make a nice Robin Hood-esque switch hitter, although I'm spreading myself a bit thin here. Never saw a cavalier in play, actually, which is one reason why Ghost Rider isn't higher on my list -- the mount being able to be summoned and able to ride through difficult terrain would've actually made it possible to get some mileage out of a non-Small mounted character, but I'm not sure what I'd do with this. Easy to fall into the "frightening morbid loner" type, and I need to get more "social" this time around.
I desperately want to like the Medium enough to get it, but I haven't found a good personal "core" to build a character around that actually gets some good use out of Marshal and isn't just channeling Champion all the time.
Gloomblade Fighter, Weapon Master Fighter and Mutation Warrior could all be fun as well.
The problem with Medium Marshal is that Inspiring Call only lasts 1 round and you can't use your spirit surge often enough(since we don't have enough) to make it worthwhile. I like Champ focused Mediums, but dipping Hierophant for niche condition removal or Trickster for nabbing knowledge skills during downtime to research campaign related stuff can also be nice.
The marshal spirit for the medium sucks in combat. However, all the medium spirits have seance boons and spells and you don't have to choose between being a champion and buffing your allies.
That said the exemplar brawler does the leader job well, and quite differently to the skald.
Hey, Gloomblade and Mutation Warrior seem to mix, although by that you lose a lot of the core fighter abilities (just like the old Mutation Warrior/Eldritch Guardian/Martial Master mix). Looks like a nice concept.
Any tips on how to build a support exemplar apart from putting in the basic feats you expand upon with Martial Mastery?
I'm also trying my hands on standard Investigator build (not even an Inspired Blade dip), with Combat Advice and Inspirational Expertise I can do some good work on the battlefield and the skills should more than help outside of it. Alchemy ain't too cumbersome, either. Doesn't lose a lot when entering Chernasardo Warden, either. Not many feats left for ranged combat, but that won't be a hyper-specialized role.
An investigator does lose a fair bit from only gaining 5/10 advancement in its base class. Studied combat is their main combat buff (which gains +1 attack and damage/2 investigator levels) and obviously extracts are affected, and investigator talents are equivalent to a feat. You'd have to really like some of the guerilla tactics for it to be worth it. Also they wouldn't have started the PrC yet, not being full BAB.
The exemplar brawler could get into aid another if you want to really concentrate on support. Combat reflexes, bodyguard, traits etc. to improve aid another bonus. There's at least one teamwork feat which uses aid another too. Alternately they could aim for a combat maneuver including the dirty trick you mentioned; inspire courage affects them and has about the same effect as maneuver mastery. Single-classed they qualify for intimidating performance at 9th level, or at brawler 5 / chernasado warden 8 likewise.
I don't need to start with the Warden, getting the PCs to join in on the "slay something with CR +5" quest would be a potential way to introduce the character.
Yeah, there's some loss for the Investigator, but you gain potential Sneak Attack, some SLA, bonus feats and don't totally lose out on Investigator abilities. I think there was a guide that had it amongst the "green" options. But yeah, I don't really need to go with the prestige class, I can be an established member with almost anything that's not exactly an Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain…
I also had a talk with the GM, and one thing he think's missing is a way to gain Restoration, as he's worried about negative levels (and there aren't that many suitable NPCs in the vicinity) a bit.
So if that's my "yardstick" and ignoring full casters and very late entries (paladins), we would have alchemist, inquisitor, investigator, mesmerist, spiritualist, warpriest and a medium channeling the hierophant.
I'm ruling out the alchemist. I've already mentioned the investigator, and the inquisitor might be an option, at least with a more nebulous divine agency and a decent archetype. Warpriest would need a very good deity/concept to excite me more than those two. Haven't read a lot about the spiritualist or mesmerist.
Yeah, there's some loss for the Investigator, but you gain potential Sneak Attack, some SLA, bonus feats and don't totally lose out on Investigator abilities.
The Sneak Attack is worse than progressing Studied Combat (and Studied Target), the SLA's can't hold a candle to progressing alchemy, and the bonus feats from a very narrow list are worse than Investigator Talents. I honestly have a hard time imagining why any character should ever pick that prestige class (for mechanical reason). I mean, if the SLAs were good (stuff like Air Walk and Echolocation), it would be a different story, but even then only for a pure martial.
I only did a very quick look over a few parts of the guide in question, so I can't comment on the writer (the guide seems to be a bit centric about abusing high-level potions that you won't even get in most games), but I can say that I completely disagree on the topic of that prestige class. The writer doesn't really give much reason for their rating. I don't see anything that justifies losing Investigator progression.
About restoration - a 6-level caster gets that at level 10, or {6-level caster} 7 / chernasado warden 6 gets it at character level 13.
Your options there really come down to
* Forget restoration
* Forget chernasado warden
* Go with a 9-level caster after all
* Use goldmancy instead with scrolls of restoration or dragon's blood or something - this may be tricky in the middle of an invasion.
Spiritualists are a pet class by default, but there are a couple of archetypes which change it. Ectoplasmatist is about (ab)using reach, exciter gives you a weird kind of rage, or phantom blade turns it into an odd twist on a magus. Phantom blade works better than ecto' or exciter.
Mesmerists are about being the mind controller in the shadows mostly. They're the most spellcasting-focused of all the PF 6-level spellcasters. The witch would likely be very grateful for your presence debuffing saves.
Edit: and I don't disagree with Derklord above. I think chernasado warden could be interesting on a full BAB martial (especially one which is front-loaded; shifter, fighter or maybe brawler) focusing on dirty tricks, getting to do dirty tricks at range might be handy, but that's about it. Of course if your game only requires low optimisation going for it on flavour might be viable.
Yes, now that a full martial is out of the way, the Chernasardo Warden class doesn't look like my entry point in the campaign.
I mostly took it because my last temporary char wasn't as well integrated and it would be a neat way to at least avoid part of choice paralysis, something I tend to suffer from.
But "hey, it would be great if we wouldn't have to kill dragons just because someone got touched by a wight" is fine by me, too.
We had a small session recently, and while I wasn't finished with my char design, I at least came up with a background that was well received (better than my parallel choice of fey-influenced Mesmerist). That background being a more cerebral human priest of Torag, who spent the last years trying to talk the brave Nirmathi anarchists in putting up a more _solid_ defense, build some walls, etc.
I complained about the lack of proper strategy before, so that would at least allow me to channel that in a proper manner, and supporting the rest of the group with some crafting might be nice, too.
So, how do I build that? So more a planner type, elite array stats, fill in some spells for the party's need, have fun. Cleric(Divine Paragon)/Evangelist would be a usual option, more skills and lvl 4 spells at char lvl 8. Buff party, then buff myself so that even with more lackluster stats I can still do a bit of melee.
As a Nirmathi "freedom fighter", I'm not sure that I see myself really as that orthodox in Torag's faith, but the Evangelist PrC is flavorless enough to not make me feel too guilty about it.
I could go double Evangelist, would make feat choice harder and force me to put more into Cha, but could be fun, too.
Or even Herald Caller for group strategy part, despite me not liking Summoning that much (comes from being a GM). That would give me enough skills that I might just go with the aforementioned Brawler(Exemplar) after that. Filling out gaps in the defense with summons, occasionally applying the right feat or proper encouragement...
A more AoO warpriest setup could work too, or a more teamwork-y Inquisitor…