Hello everyone,
Recently, I was reading Tark's big book of clerical optimisation and the chapter about the bad touch cleric got my attention. From this and a little personal réflexion, I have made two characters for a "Bad touch" Cleric with reach but I can't decide wich one is the most efficient.
Both are based on a 20pt buy
S 10
D 13
C 14
I 10
W 15+2
C 14
1 : Channel smite / Guided hand
3 : Versatile channeler
5 : Weapon focus (Whip)
7 : Whip Mastery
9 : Heavy armor proficiency
Domains : Chaos and Trickery (Deception)
Variant channeling : Revenge
Skills : K. Religion, Diplomacy, Sense motive (2 traits available)
With 15ft Reach and (as quickly as possible) a conductive weapon, this one goal is to use revenge channel smite and conductive property for chaos touch. He has a good reach but cannot use his spells with his whip (unless the spell storing property). But has a better constitution and healing capacities. The whip mastery is just to be sure he can do something if forced to engage in melee (boosting his dammage with one way or another).
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S 11-2
D 14+2
C 12
I 12
W 16+2
C 10
1 : Agile Tongue
3 : Weapon Finesse
5 : Net adept
7 : Lunging Spell Touch
9 : Piranha Strike
Domains : Chaos and Trickery (Deception) OR Chaos and Madness (by being either a separatist of Callistria or a follower of Groetus/Lamashtu/Lantern king)
Variant channeling : None
Skills : Stealth (Trickery), Sleight of Hand (trait), Perception (Trait) (0 trait available)
This little guy can use his tongue for everything a Bad touch cleric need to do (either domain powers or magical touch attack) at 10ft reach first and 15ft later (if a servant of Calistria, I love the fact he consider his tongue as his god's favorite weapon). When unable to cast an useful spell, he can either engage into melee with his agile sickle or throw a net on a medium or smaller foe. The disadvantage over the other build is his lesser constitution and channel capacity. Also, for rp reasons I give him some roguish skill (I mean, he's small anyway with a thievy tongue) but at the expense of both his traits.
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I like the grippli a little more but can't decide wich second domain is worth taking : Trickery or Madness (suggesting aither a separatist or a different -mad- god) ?
Don't hesitate to give me your opinion or advices on feats choice :)
Re the whip build, Conductive would eat up your Touch of Chaos uses too quick and Spell Storing would only work with one spell per combat. You'll likely have to get into touch range more often than not, which kinda defeats the purpose of having a whip.
The domain choices for the grippli would be dependent on what level range you'll be playing at. Madness has very good domain powers, but the 1st-level power doesn't become valuable before you're level 8 or so. The Icon of Aspects is definitely something you want, to switch out domain powers as you level up.
Thanks you for your answer.
I didn't know this item :o
But the more I think about it, the more i realize the Trickery domain as little to offer except somes good spells. The Chaos domain however has an exceptionnaly good power but terrible spells. The best thing would be to take Trickery and Madness as main domain and switch trickery powers for chaos powers at level 8. But that means no chaos touch until level 8.
I think I will take the Lantern king as a deity (chaos and madness) and beg my GM to let me swap one the grippli situational racial trait for Fey thought to get Sleight of hand (it is a thematic trait with the lantern king).
Domains appart, do you think of any other feat who will beneficiate this cleric ? I didn't really see a magic school patern in the good bad touch spells so i dont know if Spell focus would be of any help ....
But that means no chaos touch until level 8.
It's a bit confusing, but you can use it before level 8. "The cleric must meet the level requirements for both abilities" refers to the two abilities that are traded out for each other.
Two abilities at level 1 and two at (usually) level 8. Some domains give the second power at level 4/6, and that clause is simply preventing you from getting a higher level power earlier than normal. So at level 5-6, when you can afford it, it's possible to switch out the Deception subdomain's Sudden Shift for Touch of Chaos.
Domains appart, do you think of any other feat who will beneficiate this cleric ? I didn't really see a magic school patern in the good bad touch spells so i dont know if Spell focus would be of any help ....
Could be an idea to get Preferred Spell keyed to Mirror Image (from the Deception subdomain). It's a great defensive spell which would help you survive being in melee. I'd prioritize it above Net Adept and Lunging Spell Touch.
Also, keep in mind that a Net is easily destroyed just by inflicting 5 damage to it. I'd invest in some Tangleshot Arrows instead of nets. While the DC is very poor, the Entangled condition is applied even if they make the save and it lasts for 2d4 rounds.
Also, keep in mind that a Net is easily destroyed just by inflicting 5 damage to it. I'd invest in some Tangleshot Arrows instead of nets. While the DC is very poor, the Entangled condition is applied even if they make the save and it lasts for 2d4 rounds.
It seems the rules for net lacks some precision about how to destroy it. I have read a few subject on the matter and most people suggest either :
or
"Attacking it" require an adequate weapon, so an ennemy without slashing damages would be forced to use the other 2 options (Escape artist or Streght) or take the penalty.
Ineffective Weapons: Certain weapons just can't effectively deal damage to certain objects. For example, a bludgeoning weapon cannot be used to damage a rope. Likewise, most melee weapons have little effect on stone walls and doors, unless they are designed for breaking up stone, such as a pick or hammer.
The Net use is more for RP and originality reason than true efficiency (but I think it can still be very efficient, and unlike the tanglefoot arrow there is no save). I love the idea of Spell specialisation but I am not sur if burning a feat and delay everythin else just to boost a single domain spell in minutes/lvl is wort it. But thanks you anyways for these greats suggestions :D
and unlike the tanglefoot arrow there is no save
Yes, but as mentioned the saving throw doesn't matter. If you hit an opponent with a Tangleshot Arrow and they succeed on the save, they're still Entangled for 2d4 rounds. Failing the save means that they're stuck to the ground.
Do ya thing, though. Use a net if that's what you feel is more thematic.I love the idea of Spell specialisation but I am not sur if burning a feat and delay everythin else just to boost a single domain spell in minutes/lvl is wort it.
Preferred Spell (linked above) allows you to use your normal spell slots to cast the chosen spell. Normally you have just one 2nd level domain spell slot each day. Taking Preferred Spell means that you can cast Mirror Image multiple times per day.
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If you reach higher level play, remember that Touch of Chaos and Vision of Madness are both Spell-like abilities. This means that you must pierce Spell Resistance to affect enemies.