Long term influence through Diplomacy?

[Lanathar]

I have just spotted that Diplomacy only changes an NPCs opinion of you for a short term - "only the current social interaction"

So compared to 1E the DC doesn't change regardless of the starting opinion. So it is harder if they are friendlier but a lot easier if they are not

But it is all temporary

Have I overlooked some rules or suggestions on how to change someone's opinion long term?

The Influence system is also specifically called out as being short term as well

I was thinking 3 successes or a critical success changes the (permanent) stage by one? Or do I just look at a more general Victory Point scenario?

[HumbleGamer]

Well, the request could be anything ( reasonable or not ) which could be accomplished in a blink of an eye or require a long time.

Gather information is something which could be done and done over and over again ( given the limit of time, you won't be possible able to learn everything you need, but the more time you spend, the better ).

As for making an impression, is something which lasts ( you made him a good impression, but that's it ).

Remember also that diplomacy is not some sort of Mind control, and given different situations your interlocutor could decide to give up your deal:

- your interlocutor receives threats.
- your interlocutor receives a better deal from another part.
- your interlocutor finds up stuff about you he doesn't like.
- your interlocutor can't afford to maintain his word anymore ( because of higher powers or causes ).

[Lanathar]

This is for a conversion of an adventure path volume where you need to change NPC attitudes from along the spectrum of : Hostile, Unfriendly, Indifferent, Friendly, Helpful

So this is why I am asking. Nothing to do with mind control but fulfillment of a series of side missions that require more long term "Impressions" to be made

[HumbleGamer]

Lanathar wrote:

This is for a conversion of an adventure path volume where you need to change NPC attitudes from along the spectrum of : Hostile, Unfriendly, Indifferent, Friendly, Helpful

So this is why I am asking. Nothing to do with mind control but fulfillment of a series of side missions that require more long term "Impressions" to be made

Is performing minor tasks for those npc out of question or something which can be considered?

adventurers could find themselves directly unfriendly because what they did pleased in some way the NPC.

Then a long conversation ( diplomacy ), with 2 possible outcome

- Success > NPC indifferent
- Critical success > NPC friendly

Finally, a task ( more or less difficult depends their current attitude ) to let them helpful.

It could go ( since it's a specific scenario you won't be using this anymore I guess ) couldn't it?

[masda_gib]

Permanent attitude change of NPCs is in the hands of the GM. The players can change the attitude through actions and story and quests and whatnot.
Changes via simple skill check are temporary and I think that's a good thing. No more ridiculous Diplomancers.

[Aratorin]

The APs tend to set specific Actions that will increase or decrease an NPCs overall Attitude. For example, helping them on a quest will increase their Attitude, while defiling the graves of their ancestors will decrease it.

There's also a Reputation Point system or something like that, but I can't remember exactly and I don't have the book on me at the moment.

[Captain Morgan]

Yeah, but PF1 APs tend to treat it is as possible to move someone from hostile to friendly or helpful on pure Diplomacy checks. I've found when running conversions it works best if you keep your eye out for favors, key arguments, or good roleplay to move it further.

RotRL: Hook Mountain Massacre Spoilers:

For example, the first ogrekin you encounter (Ruckus Graul, I tink) mentions one of these bige attitude shifts. I let my player make multiple diplomacy checks to do so, but only when it was paired with doing things that actually curried favor. Specifically, I recall the Ranger party face not being around when the party fought the ogrekin and killed his dogs, and then bumping into him and his one inured surviving dog as he fled crying. The Ranger got a success on a glad hand check, and then made another diplomacy check to offer and Battle Medicine Ruckus's dog. Success on both diplomacy and the medcine checks(and maybe another favor I'm forgetting) was enough to justify Ruckus becoming at least friendly, IMo.