I can't find anything in the rule book about Flanking vs States of detection in the rulebook. I am actually wondering if you can still flank and enemy while beeing "Undetected" from a Sneak Action, but it applies to the other states of detection too.
The flanking rules state:
"To flank a foe, you and your ally must be on opposites sides or corners of the creature. A line drawn between the center of your space and the center of your ally’s space must pass through opposite sides or opposite corners of the foe’s space. Additionally, both you and the ally have to be able to act, must be wielding melee weapons or able to make an unarmed attack, can’t be under any effects that prevent you from attacking, and must have the enemy within reach. If you are wielding a reach weapon, you use your reach with that weapon for this purpose."
The parts thats making me unsure is "both you and the ally have to be able to act"
I'm thinking beeing "Hidden" would still work for flanking, since the enemy knows where squares you're in. But when beeing "undetected" is it a condition that prevent you from attacking? Only when using Sneak? Only when using a spell like invisibility?
For reference, the Sneak Action aso states: "You become observed as soon as you do anything other than Hide, Sneak, or Step."
Why would being undetected prevent you from attacking? Attacking will prevent you from remaining undetected, but that isn't the same thing at all.
I'm pretty sure that there's nothing in the rules saying that you can't flank if the enemy is not aware of you.
This goes back to first edition, and was discussed a lot.
I'm pretty sure that there's nothing in the rules saying that you can't flank if the enemy is not aware of you.
This goes back to first edition, and was discussed a lot.
I do remember in first edition, somewhere in the rules, making it clear beeing invisible still means your enemy was in 'threat range'. I was mostly wondering about how flanking was affected by the new 'states of detection' (observed, hidden, undetected, etc) in 2e. Good to know it's not related at all, it makes things less complicated.
It's not something that happens fairy often anyway :D. It means having cover right behind your foe + beeing able to sneak up behind your enemy + your foe staying in position + and having a ally moving in front of the foe and making a strike.
Also, an undetected character will already treat creatures as flat-footed, so at most it is relevant to the other flanker.
The big question is: How are you 'hidden or undetected' while in melee reach? Generally speaking, you need magic or legendary feats to pull this off since the moment you end an action without the necessary cover/concealment, you become observed.
My group was fighting enemies in the jungle last night. During his turn the rogue threw a dagger at the enemy from behind a tree, then did a successful hide from the cover of that tree and then a successful sneak action to stride at half speed to the cover of a bush right behind the foe. So, the rogue ended his turn inside of this bush while beeing undetected.
And then, right after him, an ally moved on the other side of the foe.
Intuitively I want to say being flanked by an invisible or unseen foe is indistinguishable from not being flanked, at least to the perspective of goes you can see. The reverse is imagine explaining to a player that they are flat-footed to the one toe they can see because there is an unseen enemy somewhere near them. If the foe was merely hidden to the flanked character, however, I would probably consider them flat-footed.