Twin Takedown

[Zapp]

What do you think is the RAI here (rules-as-intended)?

1. Can a Ranger target two different creatures, as long as both are marked (Rangers eventually gain the ability to mark more than one creature)?

2. Is a Ranger required to select target(s) before executing either attack? (Or can they wait until knowing the result of one attack before selecting the target of the second)

3. Assume you hold one dagger in each hand, clearly fulfilling the feat requirement. Can you use Twin Takedown to throw the daggers at your target?

Cheers,

[HammerJack]

Quote:

TWIN TAKEDOWN [one-action]

FEAT 1
FLOURISHRANGER
Frequency once per round
Requirement You are wielding two melee weapons, each in a different hand.

You swiftly attack your hunted prey with both weapons. Make two Strikes against your hunted prey, one with each of the required weapons. If both hit the same hunted prey, combine their damage for the purpose of its resistances and weaknesses. Apply your multiple attack penalty to each Strike normally.

1. I don't see a reason that if you have 2 hunted targets, you couldn't split the attacks, or a reason to think you aren't intended to be able to.

2. Thanks to the bolded section, the full process of resolving the 1st attack can depend on the second. That suggests to me that you are intended to need to make both attacks before seeing the full results. (It's possible to work around that, but thus is 's question about RAI).

3. Since, as laid out in CRB errata, we font consider them melee weapons when you're throwing them, I don't think so. I believe that errata was made to clarify intent, nit that it's accidentally interfering with it.

[Malk_Content]

For part 2 it is very easy to fully resolve 1 hit and then do the second. Basically if it has Resistance to your attack, you remove resistance equal to your first damage roll from your second. If it has Weakness, you don't increase damage from it.

[HammerJack]

That's... exactly why I was saying you can work around it, but this is a RAI question. (Though with some typos and autocorrect shenanighans).

[Zapp]

Malk_Content wrote:

For part 2 it is very easy to fully resolve 1 hit and then do the second. Basically if it has Resistance to your attack, you remove resistance equal to your first damage roll from your second. If it has Weakness, you don't increase damage from it.

If your point is to argue against the notion "you must make both hits at the same time or it is impossible to resolve the action" you have been successful.

[N N 959]

Zapp wrote:

What do you think is the RAI here (rules-as-intended)?

1. Can a Ranger target two different creatures, as long as both are marked (Rangers eventually gain the ability to mark more than one creature)?

2. Is a Ranger required to select target(s) before executing either attack? (Or can they wait until knowing the result of one attack before selecting the target of the second)

3. Assume you hold one dagger in each hand, clearly fulfilling the feat requirement. Can you use Twin Takedown to throw the daggers at your target?

Cheers,

1. Per RAW, yes.

2. My understanding of the rules require each attack is resolved before the next attack is made. Several abilities allow for the combining of damage before Weak/Resist is applied, but that does not preclude the attack and its subsequent hit from being resolved.

3. Per RAW, yes. As there is no Thrown Weapon category and a Strike applies to both ranged and melee attacks, I fail to see any language that precludes it, even if it may not be RAI.

[Taja the Barbarian]

N N 959 wrote:

3. Per RAW, yes. As there is no Thrown Weapon category and a Strike applies to both ranged and melee attacks, I fail to see any language that precludes it, even if it may not be RAI.

When you throw a weapon, it is not a melee weapon:

ERRATA / CHAPTER 6: EQUIPMENT wrote:

Page 283: In the definition for the thrown weapon trait, change the first sentence to “You can throw this weapon as a ranged attack, and it is a ranged weapon when thrown.”

Beyond this, you can argue that the moment you throw the first one, you no longer meet the feat prereq of 'You are wielding two melee weapons, each in a different hand'...

[beowulf99]

N N 959 wrote:

3. Per RAW, yes. As there is no Thrown Weapon category and a Strike applies to both ranged and melee attacks, I fail to see any language that precludes it, even if it may not be RAI.

The thought is that as soon as you intend to throw them, they are no longer melee weapons meaning that they no longer qualify for Twin Takedown.

Errata 1.0 (Thrown Weapons) wrote:

In the definition for the thrown weapon

trait, change the first sentence to “You can throw this
weapon as a ranged attack, and it is a ranged weapon
when thrown.”

They also couldn't be used with Hunted Shot actually, as they would not be, "A ranged weapon with Reload 0". As is they don't have a reload statistic, and we have no guidance as to what that reload would be if they gained one.

I personally don't agree that this is how it should be, but it is the RAW as I see it.

[N N 959]

Taja the Barbarian wrote:

N N 959 wrote:

3. Per RAW, yes. As there is no Thrown Weapon category and a Strike applies to both ranged and melee attacks, I fail to see any language that precludes it, even if it may not be RAI.

When you throw a weapon, it is not a melee weapon:

ERRATA / CHAPTER 6: EQUIPMENT wrote:

Page 283: In the definition for the thrown weapon trait, change the first sentence to “You can throw this weapon as a ranged attack, and it is a ranged weapon when thrown.”

Beyond this, you can argue that the moment you throw the first one, you no longer meet the feat prereq of 'You are wielding two melee weapons, each in a different hand'...

Okay, thanks for pointing out the errata on that.