I have a 20 pt build.
I went Evangelist Cleric with the following stats, which I can change
STR 14 + 2
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 10
For feats I took
- Lingering Performance (because only 10 CHA)
- I have 2 free feat, and I don't know what to take
Our party is:
Paladin melee
Fighter melee with falchion
Wizard conjurer
I want to be a support role. I notice we lack Stealth guy, or Disable device guy. I could potentially change class, but honestly I have no idea what to play.
What feats could I take as Cleric?
Why such high physical stats?
If you're going Evangelist Cleric and you want to to play support I'd be bumping my WIS/CHA
I dumped INT because with 2 skill points per level there's no difference between 9 INT and 7 INT (you can't get less than 1/level from your class). Then as a Human you get a bonus skill point per level (now you're at 2/level) and with your Favoured Class Bonus (FCB) you can put it into skills so you have 3/level, which isn't bad.
Level 1 feats: Medium Armour Proficiency and Lingering Performance seem like good choices.
Are you really looking to play support? Or do you want to be more combat oriented?
Why such high physical stats?
If you're going Evangelist Cleric and you want to to play support I'd be bumping my WIS/CHA
** spoiler omitted **
Level 1 feats: Medium Armour Proficiency and Lingering Performance seem like good choices.
Are you really looking to play support? Or do you want to be more combat oriented?
To be honest, I never play support, so I'm not really sure what to do.
I read a guide about a reach cleric where her focus is STR and being able to make AoO, and use her standard actions for spells or inspire courage.Go to Paizo Inc..
My idea for the character is someone who has always something to help the party, this in my head includes:
- can't bypass DR, I've got you
- did you fail a save, I can make you re roll or just remove effect
- enemy with high attack roll, I can protect you giving you more AC
- enemy with high AC, I can assist you giving more to attack
I wanted to be able to share Harrying partners and combine it with Bodyguard, this would help me give +4 AC with helpful trait, but honestly I can't find a way to do so without Paladin or losing Inspire Courage altogether.
All the ways I've found include having levels in Paladin (which I don't want).
I don't mind multiclassing at all, but I don't have enough system mastery to get the flow, and losing levels in Inspire Courage is really bad, don't care much about losing caster levels, because I'm already full caster (this is because I consider full caster to be overpowered)
I wanted to have more agenda besides casting spells, but I can't find a way to do it.
That's why I went with high STR, being able to provide something else.
You could change your deity to one that offers the COOPERATION SUBDOMAIN. It has a power that lets you share teamwork feats and gives you access to COORDINATED EFFORT.
Alternately if you're willing to give up spellcasting altogether you could be an EXEMPLAR BRAWLER (I want to play this, it looks super fun).
Your best bet is probably to just play a bard though, you'll get access to Coordinated Effort and you can also potentially use things like the GLOVES OF ARCANE STRIKING. It's probably worth looking through the Bard archetypes too, there are heaps and I don't know them well enough to offer much (Dirge Bard seems appropriate for Carrion Crown).
However you do it I wouldn't worry too much about hitting enemies. Don't tank your Strength, but with a Fighter, a Paladin and likely a few summons (Conjuration Wizard) your party probably has .ore than enough damage output. They're more likely to need the buffs. 14 STR is probably enough to get you through.
I should add that playing a Cleric in this AP would be a powerful option, so if that's what you wanted then any flavour of Cleric is a strong option.
I wouldn't play a Cleric just because you think you need to though. Play whatever you think will be the most fun.
I'm in the middle of Carrion Crown now. We intentionally didn't make Paladins or Clerics, and we only have a 3 person party. We did have a TPK in book 1, but we weren't a very synergistic team (Bomber Alchemist plus Brawler equals team damaage). Our second group of characters have made it to book 3 without a hitch. Clerics are strong, but not mandatory.
You could change your deity to one that offers the COOPERATION SUBDOMAIN. It has a power that lets you share teamwork feats and gives you access to COORDINATED EFFORT.
Alternately if you're willing to give up spellcasting altogether you could be an EXEMPLAR BRAWLER (I want to play this, it looks super fun).
Your best bet is probably to just play a bard though, you'll get access to Coordinated Effort and you can also potentially use things like the GLOVES OF ARCANE STRIKING. It's probably worth looking through the Bard archetypes too, there are heaps and I don't know them well enough to offer much (Dirge Bard seems appropriate for Carrion Crown).
However you do it I wouldn't worry too much about hitting enemies. Don't tank your Strength, but with a Fighter, a Paladin and likely a few summons (Conjuration Wizard) your party probably has .ore than enough damage output. They're more likely to need the buffs. 14 STR is probably enough to get you through.
That domain is not one of Desna's, so it's not a choice. But I've found this, and maybe it will work.
It's not super optimized, that's not the idea behind the build, but it it would seem it's the only thing that might possible work.Go to Constable Cavalier
1 Cleric 1 - Combat Reflexes
1 Cleric 1 - Human Bodyguard
2 Cleric 2 - Nothing
3 Cleric 3 - Outflank,
4 Constable 1 - Improved Unarmed Strike, Challenge, Order, Tactician
5 Constable 2 - +1 Perception, Order Ability
6 Constable 3 - Squad Commander
7 Cleric 4 - Harrying partners
So at level 6 I'm able to share Outflank as long as I want, if my DM allows it, because we can always stop 1 minute to make a plan.
This means that as my first action I'd use Inspire Courage, by now I have 4 + 2 rounds per day, it's not a lot, so I should take Lingering Performance asap or find a way to use an item to extend it, shame I can't use Tuned Bowstring
Then I move into position.
When my allies get attacked, I can provide aid another with my 3 AoO, AC10, and I provide +4 AC that last until the beginning of my next turn.
On my turn I can assist the biggest damage dealer and give +4 to all attacks, with +1 from Inspire Courage or cast a spell.
Now, I need a way to use Aid another as a move action, is there any? Swift
I should add that playing a Cleric in this AP would be a powerful option, so if that's what you wanted then any flavour of Cleric is a strong option.
I wouldn't play a Cleric just because you think you need to though. Play whatever you think will be the most fun.
I'm in the middle of Carrion Crown now. We intentionally didn't make Paladins or Clerics, and we only have a 3 person party. We did have a TPK in book 1, but we weren't a very synergistic team (Bomber Alchemist plus Brawler equals team damaage). Our second group of characters have made it to book 3 without a hitch. Clerics are strong, but not mandatory.
I wanted to play a Bard, but I couldn't find a way to share team work feats. Arcane Strike is a nice feat, but Arcane Duelist replaces Versatile Performance, which would give me the ability to take Masterpiece song.
The only thing I've found was this: Battle Song of the People's Revolt, but you cannot have 2 performances at the same time.So I'd have to multiclass, but that means losing 3 levels of Bard and I'm not sure how big of an impact is for a 3/4 caster.
We're talking about Bard4/Cavalier3.
Yes, the bonus to Aid Another would be +1 for AC only, but I'd have access to Heroism, Haste and other Bard stuff
I'd probably go Cleric-5/Cavalier-3/Cleric-X instead. Level 5 on an Evangelist Cleric gets you a lot. Two 3rd level spells (three of your WIS is 16), +1d6 channel dice and +2/+2 from Inspire Courage is a pretty huge boon. It does delay your cavalier ability though so up to you.
If you did want to go bard then COORDINATED EFFORT is a 3rd level bard spell, so you can share a teamwork feat with your party at 7th level for the cost of a spell slot. It won't be all day, but it'll last long enough for tough fights.
The advantage of Arcane Strike is that when used in conjunction with the Gloves of Arcane Striking it increases the AC bonus you give to your allies, so a 7th level Bard with the Helpful (Halfling) trait and Gloves of Arcane Striking can give allies +6 to AC. If you add in Harrying Partners (via Coordinated Effort) and the Bodyguard feat and you're giving them +6 to AC all round for only the cost of an AoO.
I don't know how useful it is, but I recently found the DIVINE EXPRESSION feat. It won't increase the bonus granted from Inspire Courage, but it might let you try different archchetypes.
Alternately the OCEAN' ECHO Oracle archetype gets Inspire Courage and moght open some options up for you (I know the Succor mystery has Bodyguard as a bonus feat, not sure if there are any Teamwork Feat related oracles).
The build you have looks fine, but getting 3 levels of Cavalier in there means you're waiting till level 8 for Inspire Courage to be +2/+2, and waiting till level 10 for a move action to activate performances (you'll also lose out on spells but you don't seem too worried about that so no biggie).
I'd probably go Cleric-5/Cavalier-3/Cleric-X instead. Level 5 on an Evangelist Cleric gets you a lot. Two 3rd level spells (three of your WIS is 16), +1d6 channel dice and +2/+2 from Inspire Courage is a pretty huge boon. It does delay your cavalier ability though so up to you.
If you did want to go bard then COORDINATED EFFORT is a 3rd level bard spell, so you can share a teamwork feat with your party at 7th level for the cost of a spell slot. It won't be all day, but it'll last long enough for tough fights.
The advantage of Arcane Strike is that when used in conjunction with the Gloves of Arcane Striking it increases the AC bonus you give to your allies, so a 7th level Bard with the Helpful (Halfling) trait and Gloves of Arcane Striking can give allies +6 to AC. If you add in Harrying Partners (via Coordinated Effort) and the Bodyguard feat and you're giving them +6 to AC all round for only the cost of an AoO.
I don't know how useful it is, but I recently found the DIVINE EXPRESSION feat. It won't increase the bonus granted from Inspire Courage, but it might let you try different archchetypes.
Alternately the OCEAN' ECHO Oracle archetype gets Inspire Courage and moght open some options up for you (I know the Succor mystery has Bodyguard as a bonus feat, not sure if there are any Teamwork Feat related oracles).
The build you have looks fine, but getting 3 levels of Cavalier in there means you're waiting till level 8 for Inspire Courage to be +2/+2, and waiting till level 10 for a move action to activate performances (you'll also lose out on spells but you don't seem too worried about that so no biggie).
I think I've found it.
1 Succor 1 - Combat Reflexes - Revelation Perfect Aid (Ex), gets Bodyguard
1 Succor 1 - 1 FREE FEAT
2 Succor 2 - Mystery Spell
3 Succor 3 - Phalanx Formation (allies provide no cover, I can use AoO even with Reach). Revelation Teamwork Mastery (Ex, Sp): Teamwork Feat for free (pick any)
4 Succor 4 - Access to level 2 Spells, Mystery Spell
5 Constable 1 - Improved Unarmed Strike, Challenge, Order, Tactician. FREE FEAT
6 Constable 2 - +1 Perception, Order Ability
7 Constable 3 - Harrying Partners, Squad Commander
This will give me everything I want, thought I drop Inspire Courage. I'm getting 2 feats free (the teamwork one and bodyguard), which means I can invest in Swift Aid (that scales with the bonus from Perfect Aid and I can aid as Swift Action, at the start it's only +2). Another feat that I can take whatever I want.
I could potentially do it with Evangelist as well, but I need more feats
As Evangelist I have the same amount of feats almost, missing 1 only, I just noticed, the only difference is not getting that Perfect Aid ability but Inspire Courage instead.
Thing is, Inspire courage wont be move action until 10, and if I go oracle it won't matter, not IC to activate.
I guess I need to evaluate what is better.
Oracle gets me access to Swift Aid, while Evangelist scales Inspire Courage and early access to spells.
You could go Ocean's Echo Oracle, but you lose a couple of Mysteries, so everything would come online a bit later anyway. I don't really know which is the best, but hey it's nice to have options.
You could go Ocean's Echo Oracle, but you lose a couple of Mysteries, so everything would come online a bit later anyway. I don't really know which is the best, but hey it's nice to have options.
Oracle gets: Swift Aid, +2 Aid, +3 at 12th. Total Aid +6 with Swift Action Aid and Standard Action Aid
1 Succor 1 - H: Combat Reflexes
1 Succor 1 - Perfect Aid (Ex): Bodyguard
1 Succor 1 - Feat: FREE
2 Succor 2 - No feats
3 Succor 3 - Feat: FREE
3 Succor 3 - Teamwork Mastery (Ex, Sp): TEAMWORK FEAT
4 Succor 4 - No feats
5 Succor 5 - Feat: FREE > Shield Focus
6 Succor 6 - No Feats
7 Constable 1 - Feat: Swift Aid - Bonus Teamwork Feat: Harrying Partners
8 Constable 2 - No Feats
9 Constable 3 - Feat: FREE > Unhindering Shield
9 Constable 3 - Squad Commander > Harrying Partners online
10 Succor 7
At level 5 Evangelist is already giving +2 to whole party, beating Oracle. At level 10 it's a move action, leaving Standard for casting. Could also be possible to push Constable at Level 8, to get Level 7 Evangelist for 4 level spells (Blessing of Fervor).
I'm aiding another for +4 AC/attack rolls. The AC buff should be up every turn with 3 AoO, and I can easily buff 1 party member attacks for +4 as well. With benevolent it will be much higher
At level 10 I'm giving +4 aid another, +2 IC, +1 Bless. With a Rod of Quicken, I can potentially do that on the first turn of combat.
1 Evangelist 1 - H: Combat Reflexes
1 Evangelist 1 - Feat: Lingering Performance
2 Evangelist 2 - No Feats
3 Evangelist 3 - Feat: Phalanx Formation
4 Evangelist 4 - No feats
5 Evangelist 5 - Feat: TeamWork Feat
6 Evangelist 6 - No Feats
7 Evangelist 7 - Feat: Bodyguard
8 Constable 1 - Bonus Teamwork Feat: Harrying Partners
9 Constable 2 - Feat: Shield Focus
10 Constable 3 - No Feats
10 Constable 3 - Squad Commander > Harrying Partners online
11 Evangelist 8 - Feat: Unhindering Shield
Overall, it would seem Evangelist is better than Oracle. Revelations aren't that good, and even getting free feats doesn't justify losing Inspire Courage bonuses.
Swift Aid albeit useful, scales at the same pace as Inspire Courage, but only for 1 party member, while IC is active for the whole party.
I'm going with Shield Focus, Unhindering Shield, to be able to cast spells with no problems, or even holding wands, don't lose the AC Bonus and get the benevolent armor enchantment.
I thought about getting Flagbearer, but the Banner item it's too expensive for what I get, I can just use a wand of Bless and get almost the same result. Since I'm no bard, I'm not getting the +4 to level.
Going bard build is out of the question because I can't cast with Heavy Armor.
Cavalier gets me Heavy Armor Prof and Martial weapons, making me a lot more tanky with 14 DEX and shields.
This is without mentioning that Oracles have a curse that might hinder gameplay or you end up selecting the one that doesn't make your character suck.
EDIT: updated Evangelist build, forgot to include Phalanx Formation to be able to make AoO with reach
Final Build
I might go Skill Focus racial option for UMD, and my regular feat by Combat Reflexes.
The only limitation is not having it as Class Skill, but when taking Skill Focus UMD, I'll be level 8, so that would be
8 Ranks + 3 CHA + 3 Skill Focus = 14
The Skill Focus option would also give me bonuses to Perception at level 1.
If Perfect Aid stacks with Helpful at level 4 I'm giving +6 when using Bodyguard to AC, eventually I'll get Swift Aid, and every turn I can pump my ally attacks by +6.
Inspire Courage wasn't scaling that well, and I could only use Aid Another defensively, because I had to use my Standard to aid, instead of casting a spell.
This way I could potentially aid 2 allies in one turn.
1 Succor 1 - H: Combat Reflexes
1 Succor 1 - Perfect Aid (Ex): Bodyguard, Aid + 1
1 Succor 1 - Feat: FREE >
2 Succor 2 - No feats
3 Succor 3 - Feat: Phalanx Formation
3 Succor 3 - Teamwork Mastery (Ex, Sp): TEAMWORK FEAT
4 Succor 4 - Perfect Aid (Ex): Aid + 2
5 Succor 5 - Feat: Shield Focus
6 Succor 6 - No Feats
7 Constable 1 - Feat: Shield Brace
7 Constable 1 - Bonus Teamwork Feat: Harrying Partners
8 Constable 2 - No Feats
9 Constable 3 - Feat: Swift Aid
9 Constable 3 - Squad Commander > Harrying Partners online
10 Succor 7
If you want to help others, you could go with an Investigator. Investigators get all of the skills you were looking for; they get Effortless Aid as an Investigator Talent, meaning you can do either move action aid or pop an inspiration point to use it as a swift action (meaning you could do it up to three times in a round potentially); and if you take the Infusion discovery your allies will really appreciate your buffs. Halflings or halfling-raised people with with the Helpful trait are now handing out some SERIOUS bonuses for Aid Another.
Just a thought. I haven't gotten a chance to play an Investigator and they seem QUITE interesting.
Effortless Aid is AMAZING.
I wasn't sure about Infusion because they need to drink the potion, but I'm making personal buffs available to the party, but on the other hand the action economy is too important as well.
I NEED to dip into Cavalier to share Teamwork Feats, but in case anyone reads this I also found the following:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/archetypes/paizo-oracl e-archetypes/spirit-guide
Spirit Guide gets access to a Shaman Spirit class feature.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/shaman/spirits/tribe-shaman -spirit/
Tribe Shaman spirit gets you a free TW Feats, and you can share ONE of the TW feats you know.
It does take a standard action, but you can share it 3+CHA times per day. This for an Oracle is just amazing.
You get this at level 7, being a full caster.
I would prefer this to Oracle because they're not full caster, but I've already made this build, so I'm sticking with it.
This mean as Shaman/Oracle with that archetype you don't need to dip into Cavalier to share TW Feats
I play a Cleric(Evangelist). There are several kinds of support:
1) Combat. Your reach weapon controls space, preventing enemies from doing what they want.
2) Combat. Spells: Bless, Prayer, Blessings of Fervor, Hunter's Blessing/ These spells buff everyone. Other spells (divine favor, bull's strength, ...) can buff one player at a time and are less efficient.
3) HR Recovery. Channel, healing spells. Usually do after combat.
4) Condition removal. Assorted spells. Usually do after combat.
Additionally, you have some spells (like endure elements, water breathing, ...) that are support spells used when you start the day.
One trick I have well used it to leave open slots. This lets me customize my prepared spells throughout the day to address needs. Taking 15 minutes to pick up a Raise Dead is way better than stopping for the day and waiting 8 hours for the next day to get it.
As for other things, there are some magic items to look into:
Ring of Tactical Precision for sharing a teamwork feat
Dervish Sikke to buff your inspiration
/cevah
I play a Cleric(Evangelist). There are several kinds of support:
1) Combat. Your reach weapon controls space, preventing enemies from doing what they want.
2) Combat. Spells: Bless, Prayer, Blessings of Fervor, Hunter's Blessing/ These spells buff everyone. Other spells (divine favor, bull's strength, ...) can buff one player at a time and are less efficient.
3) HR Recovery. Channel, healing spells. Usually do after combat.
4) Condition removal. Assorted spells. Usually do after combat.
Additionally, you have some spells (like endure elements, water breathing, ...) that are support spells used when you start the day.One trick I have well used it to leave open slots. This lets me customize my prepared spells throughout the day to address needs. Taking 15 minutes to pick up a Raise Dead is way better than stopping for the day and waiting 8 hours for the next day to get it.
As for other things, there are some magic items to look into:
Ring of Tactical Precision for sharing a teamwork feat
Dervish Sikke to buff your inspiration/cevah
I feel like Evangelist is bland. My only power are the spells.
Oracle felt much more fun to play and giving allies Aid Another is awesome.My only problem has been so far finding a way to Share ONE teamwork feat.
Holy Tactician is out of the question, I don't like Paladin class, even though I could play it.
Oracle 7/Constable 3 works, but I'm getting that Harrying Partners at level 10, and it seems soooo far away. Also the wording on the ability, well, it's confusing.
A full bab class could get Harrying Partners at level 6.
Oracle Spirit Guide 7/Fighter 1, I can get it at level 8, but I need to use a Standard Action to share the feat, and it only works 3+CHA times per day.
Bard can share Teamwork feats, but it will disable inspire courage.
Skald can do it, but cost 2 rounds of performance, and also disable many things with their Inspire rage song.