Will It Stack: Absalom Bouncer and Mizu Ki Hikari Rebel


Rules Questions


Absalom Bouncer:
Source Advanced Class Origins pg. 11
You learned to fight while serving as a bodyguard in the taverns of Absalom, where keeping the patrons alive through bloody bar brawls was just part of your job. When you make an attack that deals nonlethal damage with an unarmed strike, you gain a +1 bonus on your damage roll.

Mizu Ki Hikari Rebel:
Source Dragon Empires Primer pg. 9
Requirement(s) Chu Ye
You have trained in martial arts under the banner of Mizu Ki Hikari rebels. You gain a +1 trait bonus on damage rolls made with unarmed attacks.

RAW I believe yes, since Absalom Bouncer doesn't refer to it as a specific bonus.

RAI Probably not, as Absalom Bouncer is likely meant to be a trait bonus.

Abusing a Chu Ye Enforcer Vigilante build a bit... but want to know where the line is drawn on acceptability.

Scarab Sages

Likely not. Somewhere it was clarified that any bonus that a trait gives that doesn't list a type is a trait bonus. Two trait bonuses to damage won't stack, even if different things trigger those bonuses. Of course, I don't remember where that clarification is or know how long it would take me to track it down. So if your GM allows it, then sure. For PFS, I wouldn't try it.


Alphavoltario wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

RAW I believe yes, since Absalom Bouncer doesn't refer to it as a specific bonus.

RAI Probably not, as Absalom Bouncer is likely meant to be a trait bonus.

Abusing a Chu Ye Enforcer Vigilante build a bit... but want to know where the line is drawn on acceptability.

As written, I believe it works as not all traits confer trait bonuses (the vast majority do though). Whether the bonus was intended to be untyped or not is only the writer knows for sure, but it's a fair guess to say it was.

Personally, I'd say it works but that would be a heck of a backstory.


Ferious Thune wrote:
Likely not. Somewhere it was clarified that any bonus that a trait gives that doesn't list a type is a trait bonus. Two trait bonuses to damage won't stack, even if different things trigger those bonuses. Of course, I don't remember where that clarification is or know how long it would take me to track it down. So if your GM allows it, then sure. For PFS, I wouldn't try it.

I haven't seen that FAQ, but if that's the case then the opposite of what I said was true. A link would be awesome!


Not an answer, but more looking at Traits and Feats and Maths.

2 Traits = 1 Feat is the general outlook.
1 Feat = +2 damage = +1 to hit = +3 to 1 skill = +2 to 2 skills is the base line 'math' for what a feat gives on average.

Each of the traits give +1 damage in a circumstance that can be accomplished for both traits. Each one is half of what a feat would give. Everything seems to check out as not over powered.

As a GM I'd be fine with it. Especially since non-lethal damage isn't applicable against a wide swath of common opponents.


Artofregicide wrote:
Personally, I'd say it works but that would be a heck of a backstory.

Born and raised in Chu Ye, and trained as a Chu Ye Enforcer. Move away from home and use knowledge of brawling to be a bouncer at a tavern to earn your keep in an unfamiliar land. Seems like a pretty basic and cookie cutter type backstory to me (or at the very least, the premise of quite a few martial arts manga). ('^,^)

It's a min/max that capitalizes on the simplicity of throwing a punch.


Ferious Thune wrote:
Likely not. Somewhere it was clarified that any bonus that a trait gives that doesn't list a type is a trait bonus. Two trait bonuses to damage won't stack, even if different things trigger those bonuses. Of course, I don't remember where that clarification is or know how long it would take me to track it down. So if your GM allows it, then sure. For PFS, I wouldn't try it.

I am assuming you mean this clarification? Do Trait Bonuses Stack?

Main one I could find with developer input addressing the whole thing.

Scarab Sages

That’s one of them, yeah. I feel like there’s more with something more official, at least for PFS. It depends on what the goal of the thread is. If you want to know how it was intended to work, that thread answers the question. If you want to know 100% what a GM is going to rule at their table, ask them. If you want to know if at a PFS table they will be allowed to stack, the answer is most likely no, but see the part about asking your GM.

Given that there is no retraining of traits in the game, I’m not going to suggest to anyone that they take those two traits and expect them to work in PFS. If it’s a home game, just ask your GM what they think.

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