| Mr. Draco |
tldr; small parties are hard, because everything that actually affects them, hits them harder. DMs need more fine-grained options for dealing with small parties, and while I have a few thoughts, I'm mnot really satasfied with any of them.
So, I've been DMing for a small party (3 PCs), struggling with balancing encounters while still giving a good feeling of danger, and would like to share my thoughts / experiences on the mathematical challenges of small-party-combat, and get any feedback / advice y'all have to offer.
The Problem:
In an encounter, the "combat effectiveness" of a party in a single round is roughly (number of PCs) * (% capability they're at when acting). This is a reasonable metric because when all the PCs lose (whether by death / incapacitation / banishment / etc), our metric has clearly gone to zero (either zero PCs left, or 0% capability of action), and when the PCs are all at full health / spells / etc, our metric is at a maximum.
This is also applicable to the enemies in an encounter. In that case, the encounter is won (though it might be a phyrric victory) by whichever side can reduce the other to 0 Combat Effectiveness first, without losing all of their own CE.
As a DM, the game gives us two primary categories of tools to signal danger and/or raise the stakes/tension during combat:
1) Things that directly reduce the party's CE
2) Things that threaten to reduce the party's CE in the future, unless some action is taken
For both of these categories, the primary tools we have become more difficult to employ against smaller parties, because they tend to mathematically affect a larger portion of the party's total CE, thus being coarser, riskier tools for the DM to use because they are more likely to lead to TPKs absent undesirable DM fiat.
Detailed Discussion
To keep things easy to compare, let's confine our discussion of Combat Effectiveness (CE, for short) to a 'normalized' version. What I mean by this is that whether we've got only 2 PCs in our party, or 200, if they're at 'full strength', we'll say that the party has a CE of 1, and if they've totally lost, they'll have a CE of 0. That way when we say something like "this brings the party to a CE of 0.5", we'll know immediately that, regardless of the size of the party, whatever we're talking about is bringing them down to only about half effectiveness.
Given that, let's understand our categories of tools as a DM.
1) Things that directly reduce the party's CE
These are things like killing a character, inflicting some status conditions (e.g., blinded / controlled / dazzled / slowed), disarming a weapon, employing an antimagic field to nullify spells / items, etc. Importantly, this generally does not include dealing damage (except in the case of actually killing / incapacitating a PC), but more on this next.
2) Things that threaten to reduce the party's CE in the future, unless some action is taken
This category contains things like dealing damage (under most circumstances), many debuffs, some other status conditions (e.g., doomed, fatigued, flat-footed, etc), and the like. To fully understand the difference here, let's take an example:
Say the party's meat-shield fighter is going toe-to-toe with a demon. It's the demon's turn, and on his last attack, the demon deals a critical hit, reducing the fighter down to just 1 hp left.
Now, did this affect the party's CE? No. After all, the fighter (and everyone else in the party for that matter) still has all of her options available to her. She can move, attack, use an item, whatever she wants!
What the demon's crit did accomplish was to threaten to reduce the party's CE in the future. After all, if the fighter goes down then the party's CE is certainly reduced! If this were a 4 person party and all of the other party members were still at full health/spells/etc, losing the fighter would take them from a CE of 1.0, to a CE of 0.75! Quite a blow!
So, while the party is still erstwhile acting at a CE of 1.0, even though the fighter is at only 1hp, they have to keep in mind that they're running the very high risk of being suddenly reduced to a CE of 0.75 unless they can take some sort of mitigating action (e.g., heal the fighter, kill all the enemies, etc). As such, the damage the demon dealt is an example of the second category of tool that the DM has.
What if it the demon did 1 more damage?
Well, in that case, the demon's last attack would reduce the fighter to 0 hp, causing the fighter to immediately lose their turn and be unable to take any actions until healed / etc. This would immediately bring the party from a CE of 1.0, to a CE of 0.75, and thusly be an example of a category #1 tool. It's surprising the difference that 1hp can make, but we've all been there, and we've all seen it.
How does this interact with different party sizes?
This is the meat of it. Since all of our tools as a DM either act to directly reduce the party's CE, or threaten to reduce the party's CE unless some action is taken, it's critical to understand the size of the CE reductions we're talking about. After all, if those sizes are too big (in the extreme, a system that only gave you the option of 1-shot-TPKing the entire party or not) it's no good, and similarly, if those sizes are too small (again, in the extreme, think of a system where you could only do a single hp worth of damage if you rolled a nat-20) it's still no good. They have to be just right.
Bringing, or threatening to bring, a PC to 0 hp
Bringing, or threatening to bring, a PC to 0 hp involves a CE reduction of 1/n, where n is the number of party members. For a 6-person party, 1/n = 0.166... For a smaller, say, 3-person party, 1/n = 0.333... That means that this tool inflicts twice the CE reduction onto our small party that it would onto a big one.
But if we look a step closer, this is actually much worse. Imagine that the party reasonably wants their PC back up in action as quickly as possible, and that someone else in the party has a health potion and is within a single move of the downed PC. Well, for the next turn, the party is not only missing the CE from their downed member, but also missing the CE from the second member who has to spend all three actions getting to, drawing, and administering the health potion! For our 3-person party, that's a one-turn CE reduction of 2/n = 0.667, or well more than half of their whole CE! For a 6-person party, on the other hand, 2/n = 0.333, or only a loss of 1/3 of their whole CE.
Clearly, the small party is at a significant disadvantage when dealing with downed PCs, and because quite often the ability for the enemies to damage the PCs further depends on the difference between the party's CE and the CE of the enemies, and dealing with a 1-turn reduction of party CE all the way down to 0.333 can easily be disastrous (for example, if the enemies are able to use the distraction of the downed PC to gang up on one of the remaining ones!).
Area of effect, err..., effects
The point of area of effect effects as compared to single-target effects is that you can affect multiple PCs with them! I know. Earth-shattering, right? But let's look at how it plays out with different party sizes.
With a small party of 3 PCs again, you can catch 1, 2, or all 3 PCs with an area of effect. If your area of effect is something simple, like a Fireball spell that deals damage either directly, or threatening to, bring the PCs to 0 hp, then the math is simple again: you're either playing with 1/3, 2/3, or even 3/3 of the party's entire CE. Not very many options (we'll discuss the impact of saves for half-damage in a moment), and all of the real options for an AoE are on the extreme end of effect (2/3 and 3/3... after all, "what do you call a fireball that only catches one party member? ...lame").
With a large party of 6 PCs again, you've naively got twice as many options (e.g., 1/6, 2/6, ..., 5/6, 6/6 of the party's entire CE) depending on how many PCs get caught in the AoE. To make matters worse, all of your more extreme optionos (4/6, 5/6, 6/6) are unlikely to even be possible, because of the sheer size of the party (with 6 PCs, the probability of catching them all in a 20-ft burst is quite low unless there's some sort of external forcing-function, like fighting in a narrow hallway/etc).
So AoEs like this are easier to employ against larger parties, with less automatic risk of catastrophe and more ability for the DM to pick a fine-grained option that best fits the circumstance (for example, which two party members would you like to hit with the fireball? With a 3-person party, you only have 3 options of pairs. With a 6-person party, you have 15!).
The effect of saves (e.g., for half damage) does act to provide a little bit more fine-grained outcomes by, for example, reducing the absolute amount threat of later bringing a PC down to 0 hp, but the problem here is that this is almost totally out of the DM's control, and while it does decrease the variance of the outcomes on the party's CE somewhat, it's not enough to make AoEs as useful tools against a 3-PC party as they are against a 6-PC party. After all, sure, the wizard might save for half damage, but if they don't, you've got an incapacitated PC on your hands, leaeding to all of the problems that that brings for small parties. So what do you do? Do you only ever throw fireballs at the barbarian and rogue? Do you include the wizard anyway, and just run the significantly higher risk of a TPK? Neither option seems very satisfying.
Other options
The best tool I know of for incrementally reducing party effectiveness is the Slowed condition. Applying Slowed 1 to a PC in a 3-PC party means that, during the next round, the party will get a total of 8 actions instead of 9 (3 actions each * 3 PCs). That implies a CE reduction of only 1/9 = 0.111, which is much more fine-grained than anything else we've considered.
And this math only gets better for larger parties. With 6 PCs, giving one of them Slowed 1 results in an overall CE reduction of only 1/18 = 0.055! That's only 5.5% ! Love it!
Find a way to apply Slow with an AoE, or multiple times, and you've got a whole world of options for messing with your PCs, even if they're a small party, without automatically risking a TPK. The only problem is that it gets boring if every fight includes wands / traps / enemies with abilities to inflict Slow.
Another option is to add more party members, either via a DMPC, or letting your PCs have multiple characters. This lets you effectively increase the party size without needing to find more players for your group. The problem is that I hate this. I hate every aspect of it! DMPCs just add friction and extra book-keeping for the DM (don't you have enough to pay attention to already?), and having PCs run multiple characters usually means that they either won't care very much about their "secondary" character, or they won't care very much about either character!
What if we change the rules?
The only other real option I've thought of involves finding a way to adjust the rules to give the DM more options.
The smallest / most delicate rule change I've thought of (but haven't tested yet) is to simply give all characters/NPCs/etc 4 actions per turn by default, which decreases to only 2 actions / turn when they're below half hp. This would automatically give the DM more opportunities to affect the party's CE in a more fine-grained way, including making lesser-damage attacks meaningful by either directly reducing, or threatening to reduce, a PCs hp below the half-hp line. The main trouble I can see with this is its effect on martial-vs-caster balance. A fourth action is of marginal utility to a martial character (-15 MAP, woo!), but wildly useful to a caster (who can now cast 2, two-action spells in a single round!).
Maybe you could offset this by giving enemies effected by the second spell a +5 to their saves? But that still doesn't help the balance in the case of spells with no saving throw, or buffs/heals/utility spells.
Alternatively, you could go with giving every character 4 actions / round, and just increase all spell casting times by 1 action. But that has the opposite problem: now martials get a definite benefit, but casters casting a 3-action spell with one action left over have the same number of effective actions as they did under the 3 actions / round system (and casting a 2-action spell with one action left over).
The conclusion?
First off, I know this has been really long, and if you've read the whole thing, you're a hero.
That said, it's something that bugs me as a DM for a 3-person party. It's something that I wish I had a better answer for. So it's something that I hope you'll all engage with. Does all that above make sense? Are there other options I haven't considered? Are there any easy tweaks to make a default 4 actions / round (and reduced to only 2/round when below half-hp) work without destroying martial/caster balance?
All feedback, ideas, critiques, and discussion are welcome.
| Mr. Draco |
Has the thought of setting all encounters as if the party was at one level lower than they are flashed through your calculations of CE = 0.11123?
Sure have, and while it makes the encounters easier and less likely to TPK the party, it doesn't really help with the fundamental problem: that with a smaller party the tools the DM has to signal danger/raise tension/etc are too coarse compared to the effect of those same tools when applied to larger parties.
Having a PC go down, and needing another to spend a whole turn to bring them back up, is still a hit of 2/3 of the party's CE for a three person party, whether they're facing an encounter at Lvl+2 or Lvl-1. The encounter level only changes how likely they are to survive such a coarse hit.
| Castilliano |
Extra actions, then fewer actions later, makes a major change that would be hard to account for, especially if it opens up casting 2 2-action spells. I'd avoid as a GM at all costs, and even as a player (assuming I had other gaming outlets).
Also, this is homebrew, very much off the norm, so should be moved there.
There are benefits that go the other direction too, such as being able to Heal a larger percent of the party with a single-target Heal, or needing fewer Death Ward spells to cover the group, and so forth. Being able focus the loot also helps, w/ perhaps the extra share going to consumables that add CE (though I'd argue that's OE, offensive, as it overlooks defense too much). And in a large group, somebody's bound to have a mediocre save vs. an enemy's main shtick, while in a smaller group that becomes less likely.
If you don't want to reduce the enemies, you could bump the PCs +1 level compared to standard. Much simpler. Of course, nobody could be pure support, but I think that's true already at 4 players. Everybody has to contribute offensively.
Something that's just occurring to me is maybe you could open up another Hero Point option for when they pass the halfway mark on their h.p., to account for those fluky criticals. How that'd work would be up to you.
| Mr. Draco |
Extra actions, then fewer actions later, makes a major change that would be hard to account for, especially if it opens up casting 2 2-action spells. I'd avoid as a GM at all costs, and even as a player (assuming I had other gaming outlets).
Also, this is homebrew, very much off the norm, so should be moved there.
There are benefits that go the other direction too, such as being able to Heal a larger percent of the party with a single-target Heal, or needing fewer Death Ward spells to cover the group, and so forth. Being able focus the loot also helps, w/ perhaps the extra share going to consumables that add CE (though I'd argue that's OE, offensive, as it overlooks defense too much). And in a large group, somebody's bound to have a mediocre save vs. an enemy's main shtick, while in a smaller group that becomes less likely.
If you don't want to reduce the enemies, you could bump the PCs +1 level compared to standard. Much simpler. Of course, nobody could be pure support, but I think that's true already at 4 players. Everybody has to contribute offensively.
Something that's just occurring to me is maybe you could open up another Hero Point option for when they pass the halfway mark on their h.p., to account for those fluky criticals. How that'd work would be up to you.
Thanks for the detailed thoughts here. Tbh, I'd also really rather avoid any house rules for potential balance issues if I can, and I'm hoping people have great ideas for giving more fine-grained options to the DM within the rules that I've just missed (like the slow condition!). That's why I posted this in general disc.
It's a really interesting point to bring up that small groups also benefit from concentration of resources. I hadn't thought about that, but it's an interesting thing to look at.
Your other idea (about bumping the pc level compared to standard) is a little confusing to me. How is PCs at +1 level different from encounters at Lvl-1?
Lastly, it's an interesting thought to allow other uses for hero points to help mitigate swingy results against small parties. That seems like it could be a contained enough adjustment to not cause huge balance problems with the right implementation.
| breithauptclan |
Currently being GM for a party of 2, so I feel your pain.
For my group, we focus more on the story than the combat. There is combat certainly, but often it is lower stakes. Enemies don't often fight to the death and I expect that the PCs won't either. If things get rough, running is an option. Find or create a chase ruleset that you like.
Reward non-combat solutions to problems. Talking your way out of trouble. Sneaking in/out. Just make sure that the success/failure of the scenario doesn't hinge on one roll. It is actually easier to do this with a smaller group than a larger one. Fewer chances to mess things up with a bad roll when everyone has to roll a stealth check. Also if one person is making the majority of the rolls, that is also a higher percentage of engaged players than you would have with a 4 or 5 player group. And as far as tension - that can go through the roof in a skill-based encounter that can result in TPK-equivalent if things go too badly.
| breithauptclan |
As far as combat:
I worry about giving everyone 4 actions by default. That would allow two spells or other 2-action abilities per round. It changes too much. The game isn't set up to handle that.
I like the idea of slow. One thing you noted (which I fully agree with) is that dropping a player in a small party is much more impactful than dropping a player in a normal size party. Players should feel that risking a player dropping is much more of an impact than in a normal full party. If they don't already feel that way, you could implement a 'slow on damage' effect. When lower than half HP, characters become slowed 1 from the damage. This wouldn't be needed if the players already feel quite a bit of tension when they start dropping low in HP (and start looking for ways to cut and run).
Similarly, to mitigate some of the problem with a dropped character: Change the death and dying rules. When you are at 0 HP, you don't fall unconscious. Instead you remain conscious, but only have one action each round that has limited ability. You can't use 'strenuous' actions (which you as GM will have to decide exactly what that means). The intent being that players can pick themselves up instead of having to rely on the other party members (and taking the additional hit on party actions) to pick them up.
| Queaux |
Gorbacz wrote:Has the thought of setting all encounters as if the party was at one level lower than they are flashed through your calculations of CE = 0.11123?Sure have, and while it makes the encounters easier and less likely to TPK the party, it doesn't really help with the fundamental problem: that with a smaller party the tools the DM has to signal danger/raise tension/etc are too coarse compared to the effect of those same tools when applied to larger parties.
Having a PC go down, and needing another to spend a whole turn to bring them back up, is still a hit of 2/3 of the party's CE for a three person party, whether they're facing an encounter at Lvl+2 or Lvl-1. The encounter level only changes how likely they are to survive such a coarse hit.
When a PC goes down, their initiative is moved to just before the enemy that brought them down. That does mean that no actions are lost by that PC if there is only 1 enemy and that PC is healed before their next turn. The game does this to somewhat mitigate the problem you've recognized.
What you didn't consider what that the stand up action usually takes a PC that was knocked down an extra action after coming back up to get to full combat speed.
Overall, your 2/3 of the party's CE is probably close enough.
| Castilliano |
The mechanical difference between taking a level from the monsters or adding a level to the PCs is negligible (though having a breadth of resources from being higher favors that), especially if running your own material. But if running published adventures, it's simpler to do the adjustment once (to the PCs) and be done with it (at least until 20th!).
And I'd add that the PCs should be built knowing they'll be operating in a small group. Actions toward another PC (rather than toward killing the enemy) become that much more costly when they represent that much more of the party's action total. No casting "Bless", each PC should have offense every round possible, especially when people start getting tripped or swallowed.
So a Fighter should have a reach setup where they can use AoOs, as it's that much more of a % boost to offense, while also be able to convert to sword & board to mitigate damage when needed.
Everybody needs to be mobile, probably have self-healing (like a Champion or Monk, perhaps via MCD), and should have solid saves & AC because that stat now protects a larger % of the party. And I'd just avoid 6 h.p. classes altogether.
Samurai
|
I'm playing in a party of 3 players. Our GM, after getting the GM's Guide, decided to allow all of us to become Dual-class characters. We've had a few fights so far as Dual-classed characters, and while we have a few more options to choose from each round, our power level doesn't seem to be massively boosted. I think it was a good way to handle it. It was the only way for the GM to get any arcane spellcasting into the group...
| Loreguard |
Dual class would certainly help grant options for certain availability of buff/rebuff actions that would have otherwise been short due to fewer players. This makes it a pretty good idea, although does not necessarily correct the percent loss due to party members losing actions or going down.
If you don’t want to do full Dual class, consider free archetype. (Perhaps even giving a free 2nd level archetype dedication out at 1st to start them on their path)
Certainly like the idea of allowing the individual to remain conscious while at dying 1 but limited to only one or two actions. Maybe have dying impart a temporary slow effect equal to its value. This reduces the impact of consuming others actions when someone goes down, which you pointed out is a bigger deal for a smaller party.
Make sure you make use of hero points, and perhaps give out more. Potentially give out a party reserve, which are shared but only can be used to reroll saves, or perhaps have them have option to have those reroll an enemy’s attack, but only if it would take someone to dying.
If you are concerned about advancing the players all one level, fearing it would offset things too much, you could simply provide the Automatic Bonus Progression for the party members, in addition to what magic items they acquire. Or insure they have a more plentiful supply of consumables to help offset the quicker depletion of resources in the party.
Ok if dungeon is for level N
Honestly I’d consider:
dual-class option
perhaps also use racial paragon option
set class level to N+1
wealth as N+1 plus Automatic Bonus Progression, or at least Permanent items as per level N+1; and consumables as level N+1 plus the consumables of level N.
If adjusting monsters you could limit any groups of monsters more than the party to two actions, unless the creature is using a single three action activity. Or limit the number of creatures using all three action in their round to be equal to the number of players.
And actually, to use rules that exist already, consider making some smaller mooks be defined as minions of a more powerful enemy, so it has to use an action of its to direct its minion. This would be using established rules, and can consume some actions.
Another option, provide the players with a free animal companion or other form of minion constantly at their disposal.
| Mr. Draco |
Y'all have come up with some pretty good options. In particular, I like the thoughts for implementing a "Gain +1 Slowed condition when below half-hp", the thought of allowing 1-ish actions per turn while dying, as well as the call-out around non-combat encounters, and potential extra uses for hero points (e.g., to force an enemy to re-roll a d20, too).
The ideas around increasing the power level of the party and/or decreasing the power level of the enemies I'm not so sold on. Sure, it definitely makes a small party a better match-up against an equal-level challenge, and, full disclosure, I did give my PCs a free multiclass archetype at level 2, and that helped overall balance!
Problem is, it didn't, and doesn't, address the issue of not having more fine grained ways to 'hurt' the PCs. Sure, they bring more punch and more options to the fight, but it doesn't help the nature of only having cannons in my arsenal to affect the party with. Sometimes I want to deliver a mosquito bite instead, or even a swift kick, rather than a cannon, but I still want them to feel it. Instead, it still feels like just playing with cannons: you're fine until you get hurt, and then it's taken a huge chunk out of you (read: "the party").
So I'm not overly negative-nancy here, I'll add in a constructive point that I reviewed the status conditions, and broken for items (and deafened / stupefied for casters) seem like some other good options to inflict lesser levels of actual combat harm onto a small party. The biggest problem there is the core rulebook's proclamation that "You usually can’t attack an attended object (one on a creature’s person)."
So maybe that means you'd have to disarm a PC of the item first before attacking it? That feels like a less good solution.
Any other good options for incrementally hurting the Combat Effectiveness of a small party?
| Mr. Draco |
If adjusting monsters you could limit any groups of monsters more than the party to two actions, unless the creature is using a single three action activity. Or limit the number of creatures using all three action in their round to be equal to the number of players.
And actually, to use rules that exist already, consider making some smaller mooks be defined as minions of a more powerful enemy, so it has to use an action of its to direct its minion. This would be using established rules, and can consume some actions.
Another option, provide the players with a free animal companion or other form of minion constantly at their disposal.
Somehow, I totally missed this part of your post on my first read-through. That's a really curious idea for playing with the number of actions available to enemies in order to help make things less "swingy" against a small party. Thanks! I'll have to chew on that some more.
| breithauptclan |
Problem is, it didn't, and doesn't, address the issue of not having more fine grained ways to 'hurt' the PCs. Sure, they bring more punch and more options to the fight, but it doesn't help the nature of only having cannons in my arsenal to affect the party with. Sometimes I want to deliver a mosquito bite instead, or even a swift kick, rather than a cannon, but I still want them to feel it. Instead, it still feels like just playing with cannons: you're fine until you get hurt, and then it's taken a huge chunk out of you (read: "the party").
Any other good options for incrementally hurting the Combat Effectiveness of a small party?
Minor hinderances to party effectiveness without risking character death and dying... Sounds like conditions would be the best option.
Now, how to deliver it:
Monsters could do it. Trade out some of the damage that they normally do for a condition that gets applied on hit. Depending on the condition, it may need to be re-applied on each hit. Like causing clumsy 1 as a rider on each successful attack but it only affects one round or even the next attack by that character. or it might be a one-time special that can be removed by the party. Like a dazzling presence that the monster can trigger at the start of the battle that can be removed by a flat check the same way persistent damage can be.
Hazards could also do the job. A needle trap that applies enfeebled 2 but does no damage.
Even the environment itself would work. The Bog of Eternal Stench that causes sickened 1 that cannot be removed while in the area.
And any or all of these could be combined with regular enemies in an encounter to make the (party level -1) enemies a much more serious threat overall - even if they don't have any more HP or damage than normal.
So I think that would be a good way to continue using enemies that won't one-shot any one of your player characters, but still have a more threatening encounter overall.