Handling Detect Evil in Rise of the Runelords

[NoobGM]

We've recently started Rise of the Runelords. Just after the first goblin raid, our paladin used Detect Evil on Aldern Foxglove. I told him that he didn't detect anything - because showing him up as a likely villain in chapter 1 kinda wrecks the mystery in chapter 2 - but I'm having a hard time justifying that to myself.

There aren't any stats for Foxglove in part 1 of the campaign but I assume he's the same level 4/3 that he is as a ghast in level 2. So Detect Evil should work if he was evil.

So the justification I'm clinging to is that, during chapter 1, he isn't yet fully evil. The background states that he has a mean streak and he's already killed Iesha by that point but I guess one could blame insanity rather than evil for that? He also doesn't yet have any overtly malicious designs on the PCs. Feels a bit like clutching at straws though!

What do you think? I can't be the only GM with this problem?

(I can't help feeling that Pathfinder would be slightly better if Detect Evil wasn't in it! It does seem to limit story options for the GM, without adding anything very rewarding the to game. Is it still a starting paladin power in 2e?)

[David knott 242]

If he is less than 5th level and has no cleric levels or equivalent, he should have no evil aura. See the table associated with the Detect Evil spell.

[NoobGM]

As the Skinsaw Man (a ghast) in part 2, he's an aristocrat 4 / rogue 3 (CR7). If the living Aldern is also an aristocrat 4 / rogue 3 (this isn't explicitly confirmed in the text), Detect Evil should work on him, right?

David knott 242 wrote:

If he is less than 5th level and has no cleric levels or equivalent, he should have no evil aura. See the table associated with the Detect Evil spell.

[Askar Avari]

Firstly, you're reading the wrong information for Aldern at that point in the timeline. Book 1 Chapter 1 states:

Anniversary Edition wrote:

The man in question is named ALDERN FOXGLOVE (CN male human aristocrat 4/rogue 3), a noble destined to play an important role in Chapter Two....

The book agrees with your assessment of Aldern in Book 1 - his actions were not considered significant enough to make him fall to Evil.

That said, remember that being "Evil" doesn't make you a villain per se, especially on the level the party needs to deal with. The party will likely encounter a number of unsavory people throughout their career that they cannot be hostile towards for no other reason than the person is cruel or something. Even if Aldern had detected as evil, they would have little reason to suspect that he's a villain - at this point in the story, he's literally not.

I'm not a big fan of alignment, and I do think detect evil can encourage a very black-and-white view of the world, but I think that's a defect appropriate to paladins. There is a reason why Redeemers lose that ability and gain a buff to Diplomacy instead - being under the impression that you can separate out the bad people from everyone else discourages you from treating people equally.

It does help if you have players who recognize the gameplay mechanics as roleplay hooks as well.

[NoobGM]

What a great answer all round. Thank you.

Askar Avari wrote:

Firstly, you're reading the wrong information for Aldern at that point in the timeline. Book 1 Chapter 1 states:

Anniversary Edition wrote:

The man in question is named ALDERN FOXGLOVE (CN male human aristocrat 4/rogue 3), a noble destined to play an important role in Chapter Two....

The book agrees with your assessment of Aldern in Book 1 - his actions were not considered significant enough to make him fall to Evil.

That said, remember that being "Evil" doesn't make you a villain per se, especially on the level the party needs to deal with. The party will likely encounter a number of unsavory people throughout their career that they cannot be hostile towards for no other reason than the person is cruel or something. Even if Aldern had detected as evil, they would have little reason to suspect that he's a villain - at this point in the story, he's literally not.

I'm not a big fan of alignment, and I do think detect evil can encourage a very black-and-white view of the world, but I think that's a defect appropriate to paladins. There is a reason why Redeemers lose that ability and gain a buff to Diplomacy instead - being under the impression that you can separate out the bad people from everyone else discourages you from treating people equally.

It does help if you have players who recognize the gameplay mechanics as roleplay hooks as well.