Surprise, Flat-footed, and Reflex Saves

[Allen Antoine]

In combat if you are surprised you gain the flat-footed condition which gives a penalty to AC and makes you unable to use reactions or make attacks of opportunity. However, the rules do not say you are unable to make reflex saves. This seems puzzling to me as I would think if you're standing there slack-jawed because someone just got the drop on you that you would be unable to utilize your reflexes to avoid being affected by a grenade for example. However, since the rules don't explicitly state that being flat-footed affects your reflex saves, it could be argued that you can make reflex saves even while surprised.

In short, can you make reflex saves while surprised?

[HammerJack]

Yes.

[Garretmander]

Other systems might apply the AC penalty to reflex saves as well. But this is not one of those systems.

[Ascalaphus]

Yes, you can. Even paralyzed and unconscious characters can make reflex saves (although they have some penalties).

[Metaphysician]

I suspect that "renders a save auto-fail" is one of those mechanics that the writers took one look at and went "Nope!" If flat-footed made it impossible to pass reflex saves, than suddenly the entire system would have to be rebuilt from scratch to prevent the "Induce Flat-Footed" strategy from dominating over all others. Likewise for any other game mechanic that rendered Fortitude or Will saves auto-fail.

[Garretmander]

Metaphysician wrote:

I suspect that "renders a save auto-fail" is one of those mechanics that the writers took one look at and went "Nope!" If flat-footed made it impossible to pass reflex saves, than suddenly the entire system would have to be rebuilt from scratch to prevent the "Induce Flat-Footed" strategy from dominating over all others. Likewise for any other game mechanic that rendered Fortitude or Will saves auto-fail.

Exactly, this is the point where you realize you are playing starfinder, and there's a certain suspension of disbelief necessary to keep the game flowing.