Would you make drawing / painting two skills or could they be combined into one?

[Senko]

I'd like to have a character who draws/paints things for relaxation. Pretty views, strange creatures or plants, important events she tends to sketch a drawing into her journal. Occasionally she'll get paints out and make a painting as a gift for someone though its a lot rarer. I'm just wondering would you say craft painting could cover the two skills or would you need craft drawing and craft painting as seperate skills? I'm inclined to say painting can cover it as painters do sketch things and there's not exactly a lot of skillpoints spare.

Just to be clear this is just theory crafting not for a game so yes I can always just combine them but I'm curious how others think it should be treated in case it comes up in a game I'm running where two skills are broadly similar but not identical.

[Mysterious Stranger]

It could go either way. While most painters do sketch out what they will paint the level of detail is not a great as a fully detailed drawing. So someone with craft painting would be able to draw fairly well, but no as well as someone with craft drawing. Someone with craft drawing on the other hand would probably not be that good at painting but be able to draw incredibly detailed drawings.

[Lady Asharah]

Do you want to make an income from drawing painting?
If yes then Craft skill will work and I see no issue in combining drawing and painting into one.

If no... then why bother with a craft skill?

Especially with a craft skill, that has no DC table, it's all based on the value of the item you're making.

So "sketches and drawings" value of 0, DC to craft 0

[amethal]

For something like this I'd suggest using the background skills option from Pathfinder Unchained. Basically you get an extra set of skill points to spend on "non-adventuring" skills.

[Grankless]

It doesn't really add anything to the game to separate them. Hell, you can probably just use Craft (calligraphy) for it, that already exists.

[PCScipio]

IMHO, there's so much overlap between drawing and painting, that it's not reasonable to have them as two separate skills.

[Java Man]

For comparison: making leather armor and plate is the same skill, katanna and crossbow: same skill, playing fiddle or harp: same skill, high jump and tight rope, I'd say painting and drawing go together fine.

[deuxhero]

There are no first party references to Craft (Drawing) that I'm aware of, but a handful to Craft (Painting) with stuff like Instant Portrait, Marvelous Pigments, Trompe L'oeil and Cyberart. Cyberart is made with "a small metallic stylus that injects low-grade nanites into a body part" while only referencing painting or tattoo craft skills.

More importantly, Craft is such a underwhelming skill (except, from what I've heard, intelligence based classes in PFS who use it as an easily boosted dayjob and cheap alchemy items), especially when DCs are so low that a Wizard can trivially Fabricate almost anything untrained with just his intelligence bonus+Crafter's Fortune (and Guidance if a divine caster friend feels fancy) alone. Allowing one skill to cover charcoal, pencil, ink, paint and on wax with a stylus (which was used for etching patterns onto metal) is perfectly fine.

[Senko]

Thanks I think I'll combine them into craft painting then.

Lady Asharah wrote:

Do you want to make an income from drawing painting?

If yes then Craft skill will work and I see no issue in combining drawing and painting into one.

If no... then why bother with a craft skill?

Especially with a craft skill, that has no DC table, it's all based on the value of the item you're making.

So "sketches and drawings" value of 0, DC to craft 0

Because being able to draw/paint adds to the character and there's a craft paint.

amethal wrote:

For something like this I'd suggest using the background skills option from Pathfinder Unchained. Basically you get an extra set of skill points to spend on "non-adventuring" skills.

I am using them, albeit with the artistry rules as an option on crafting depending on what seems appropriate. I don't think there needs to be an artistry and a craft category especially when things like craft calligraphy already exist just use whichever rules work best for what your doing.

[Quixote]

Java Man wrote:

...making leather armor and plate is the same skill, katanna and crossbow: same skill, playing fiddle or harp: same skill...

This.

[Lady Asharah]

Senko wrote:

Thanks I think I'll combine them into craft painting then.

Lady Asharah wrote:

Do you want to make an income from drawing painting?

If yes then Craft skill will work and I see no issue in combining drawing and painting into one.

If no... then why bother with a craft skill?

Especially with a craft skill, that has no DC table, it's all based on the value of the item you're making.

So "sketches and drawings" value of 0, DC to craft 0

Because being able to draw/paint adds to the character and there's a craft paint.

Right, my point was - if you're not going to try and make a profit from the drawings, the amount of ranks you have in the skill is irrelevant mechanically.

[Senko]

Lady Asharah wrote:

Senko wrote:

Thanks I think I'll combine them into craft painting then.

Lady Asharah wrote:

Do you want to make an income from drawing painting?

If yes then Craft skill will work and I see no issue in combining drawing and painting into one.

If no... then why bother with a craft skill?

Especially with a craft skill, that has no DC table, it's all based on the value of the item you're making.

So "sketches and drawings" value of 0, DC to craft 0

Because being able to draw/paint adds to the character and there's a craft paint.

Right, my point was - if you're not going to try and make a profit from the drawings, the amount of ranks you have in the skill is irrelevant mechanically.

Perhaps but to me theres a definate difference between I know how to draw a person rather than a stickman (1 rank) and he paints with the colours of the sky (15 ranks + skill focus + x)

[Lady Asharah]

Yes, but unless you're planning to earn gold with sale of your craft, that difference is meaningless.

You can say your character paints masterpieces in their spare time and never sells them and that is mechanically 100% acceptable.

This happens often in my group with perform skills. A character has talent in song but not many ranks in it. Unless they are trying to perform in front of an audience we don't bother rolling to check "how well they sing". We just know they're a good singer who may have problems with stage fright.

[NorthernDruid]

Artistry (Illustration) is what I'd consider appropriate there.

A total bonus of +10 makes you a pretty good artist, so if you want to be good enough to have a mechanical foundation for your art being good for gifting then that should suffice. If you want to be a great artist you'll want at least a +15.

The Artistry skill's rules of creating commissions are the closest you'll get to a good framework for actually creating works of art. Though it needs some alterations for creating personal projects, 'cause the penalty for not succeeding the checks don't really line up with working on your own time.

[Senko]

Lady Asharah wrote:

Yes, but unless you're planning to earn gold with sale of your craft, that difference is meaningless.

You can say your character paints masterpieces in their spare time and never sells them and that is mechanically 100% acceptable.

This happens often in my group with perform skills. A character has talent in song but not many ranks in it. Unless they are trying to perform in front of an audience we don't bother rolling to check "how well they sing". We just know they're a good singer who may have problems with stage fright.

Different people have different opinions for me it makes a difference even if your not selling it. If your group see it differently that's fine for them.

NorthernDruid wrote:

Artistry (Illustration) is what I'd consider appropriate there.

A total bonus of +10 makes you a pretty good artist, so if you want to be good enough to have a mechanical foundation for your art being good for gifting then that should suffice. If you want to be a great artist you'll want at least a +15.

The Artistry skill's rules of creating commissions are the closest you'll get to a good framework for actually creating works of art. Though it needs some alterations for creating personal projects, 'cause the penalty for not succeeding the checks don't really line up with working on your own time.

I'm considering just letting people choose Artistry or Craft rules depending on what they want to achieve.