Okay, so the default Anticipation for the first show was 15.
Now that Chapter 1 is over and done with, it's the PC's who are in charge, and I'm looking more closely at the "Generate Anticipation" rules (page 60).
The only PC trained in Society is the party Wizard, so his chance of success will be at or close to the maximum: 65% (level 2 + trained 2 + ability 4 = +8, needs to roll 8), With 8 Charisma, his Charisma modifier is -1.
The expected Anticipation gain for a whole week's work is 3x (2-1) x0.65 = 1.95
Since they barely survived Chapter 1, I wouldn't be surprised if their collective wealth is less than the 20 gp needed for tier 3 advertising. Meaning 5 gp for 2 Anticipation.
That's ~4 Anticipation. That's pathetic.
I can't run a second show with these numbers. I mean, I can't expect the players to summon any enthusiasm for a show with such a small audience.
Then there's the double whammy of this:
Quote: As long as the heroes remain in
Abberton, their Prestige can rise no higher than 5,
and each payout after the first show is reduced by an
additional 25% (when this reaches 100%, the circus
receives no payout at all).
(tucked away at the very end of the adventure, easily missed)
Since the characters achieved a critical success of their first show, I'm supposed to tell them that further successes will
a) net them zero extra Prestige, since they've already hit the limit
b) all the work will not only be for a measly 4 Anticipation, but the 9 gp a success would give would then suffer a further 25% deduction, netting them maybe 7 gold.
Thunder Stendahl worked for nearly a whole year and never realized he could set up ONE show before his location started to dry up???
The adventure writers obviously intend for ONE show per AP installment. That makes no sense. Basically ensuring zero continuity since every NPC has been rendered obsolete when the heroes and the shiny new performers have gained three whole levels!! You replace all of the friends you've made, and each time experience a brand new circus.
Sorry, but I'm gonna have to throw this out. All of it.
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First off, Professor Bob must be able to offer his help (in generating a sizeable Anticipation).
I don't think I want him to have a lot of money to spend - the heroes will soon be rich. So I'll probably have the Professor offer to help by walking his Sideshow around, performing the Sideshow acts with the express purpose of generating Anticipation. Anticipation half the circus Prestige sounds like a reasonable amount. (In my case +3 Anticipation).
(If you haven't figured out yet why the players renamed the Professor "Bob" you haven't watched enough animated Fox shows)
Then I'll have the Mayor offer to pay for tier 3 advertising (another +4). He'll make this offer already when he meets the heroes at the start of Chapter 2 (since he will likely disappear after that). This also confirms a second show.
Finally, they might be able to convince Mordaine the Magician to frontline the promotional downtime. A careful reading of the rules reveals that it is never said outright only player characters can promote the circus, like the rules say only player characters can take on non-performing roles. (It is strongly inferred, but not stated outright.)
Mordaine is the NPC I judge most likely to have a decent Society AND a decent Charisma. (Gonna give her +7 Society and +3 Charisma; significantly better than any PC in my party) This allows the Wizard PC to instead do the Aid You downtime activity; being the only one with a shot at DC 20 (40%). The cost they'll have to pay is - of course - letting her perform as The Big Number!
The expect value rises from 1.95 to 3x (2+3) x0.6 = 9.75
Now they likely have more potential for Anticipation than they will want to generate, namely 17, which is as it should be! :)
Of course, this second show will appear scripted (as if it was written into the module) so any Prestige cap or payout reduction will have to wait.
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Zapp wrote: The adventure writers obviously intend for ONE show per AP installment. Not true at all, but the possibilities in Abberton are very small. That's why this reduced payout rule is in the adventure; it only applies to Abberton, and won't apply to other locations the heroes set up their circus.
Ron Lundeen wrote: Zapp wrote: The adventure writers obviously intend for ONE show per AP installment. Not true at all, but the possibilities in Abberton are very small. That's why this reduced payout rule is in the adventure; it only applies to Abberton, and won't apply to other locations the heroes set up their circus. What other locations are there in this first AP installment, "The Show Must Go On"?
(I'm specifically asking from the perspective of a GM who doesn't want to wait until 5th level to set up a second show)
Zapp wrote: Ron Lundeen wrote: Zapp wrote: The adventure writers obviously intend for ONE show per AP installment. Not true at all, but the possibilities in Abberton are very small. That's why this reduced payout rule is in the adventure; it only applies to Abberton, and won't apply to other locations the heroes set up their circus. What other locations are there in this first AP installment, "The Show Must Go On"?
(I'm specifically asking from the perspective of a GM who doesn't want to wait until 5th level to set up a second show) There aren't. Abberton is the only locale in The Show Must Go On.
I'm noticing much the same. Plus missing roles for characters who prefer to be MC/Ringmaster, or part of the sideshow (such as a fortune teller).
At this point I'll just throwing out the current rules for running a circus and making up something new, probably based more around the earn income rules.
As for the NPCs, I'll likely be leveling them up as prestige grows, maybe not as immediate however, at best +1 level per show.
Uchuujin wrote: I'm noticing much the same. Plus missing roles for characters who prefer to be MC/Ringmaster, or part of the sideshow (such as a fortune teller). As I just said (over in the other thread) I have a set of houserule tweaks to the circus rules (over in the Circus Analysis thread in this subforum).
What I didn't say there is that while I have no MC non-performing role, I *have* added a mechanical benefit to having a functional Sideshow (one where members aren't bickering or dead). :)
Zapp wrote: Okay, so the default Anticipation for the first show was 15.
Now that Chapter 1 is over and done with, it's the PC's who are in charge, and I'm looking more closely at the "Generate Anticipation" rules (page 60).
The rules as explained to me as a player is:
Promote the Circus (Downtime activity - 2 days) wrote: ... Alternatively, you can spend your time providing a sideshow act, rolling an appropriate skill determined by the GM in place of Society to Promote the Circus or Aid. ...
Critical Success: 2*(Lvl+ChaMod) Anticipation
Success: Lvl+ChaMod Anticipation
Failure: 1 Anticipation
Critical Failure: no Anticipation
Zapp wrote: The only PC trained in Society is the party Wizard, so his chance of success will be at or close to the maximum: 65% (level 2 + trained 2 + ability 4 = +8, needs to roll 8), With 8 Charisma, his Charisma modifier is -1. Since the rules allow for a sideshow, you have an out.
Zapp wrote: The expected Anticipation gain for a whole week's work is 3x (2-1) x0.65 = 1.95 Did everyone dump Cha? If you have anyone with a positive CHA or even a zero mod the equation changes.
+0 CHA: 3*(2+0)*0.25 = 1.5
+1 CHA: 3*(2+1)*0.30 = 2.7
+2 CHA: 3*(2+2)*0.35 = 4.2
+3 CHA: 3*(2+3)*0.40 = 6.0
This is with INT mod = CHA mod, so with +2, +2, you do better, even untrained in Society.
But with a sideshow to change the skill used, you can line up the best skill with the highest CHA.
Zapp wrote: Since they barely survived Chapter 1, I wouldn't be surprised if their collective wealth is less than the 20 gp needed for tier 3 advertising. Meaning 5 gp for 2 Anticipation. Since Basic Merchandise gets 1 ANY per gp, you only need 2 gp not 5 gp.
Zapp wrote: That's ~4 Anticipation. That's pathetic.
I can't run a second show with these numbers. I mean, I can't expect the players to summon any enthusiasm for a show with such a small audience.
5 gp for free beer gets 2d6 ANT, so you can add that way also.
/cevah
When people read these threads it's important to realize I went into the AP with the expectation the circus rules would be as tight, balanced and structured as the rest of the Pathfinder 2 game (or reasonably close to it), with choices (upgrades, tricks, recruits etc) being tense and important decisions.
That never happened.
In my honest view, the circus rules provide a load of clutter that just never amounts to anything, and nothing about it is tight or balanced. It's just a lot of rules that provide the entertainment of... going through the motions of using the rules, and that is all you should expect of them.
Basically, the circus is there for role-playing benefits. Expect more and you will likely be disappointed.
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