Arrow eruption questions


Rules Questions


Hello. Could you explain, please, how Arrow Eruption works?
1. Do arrow, created with arrow eruption, use bonuses from magus arcane pool buffs(if i buff bow to do additional elemental damage)?
2. If 7-th level caster faced 2 enemies and killed one previous round? How much arrows would he direct to last enemy? 1 or 7? Can i select same target multiple times?

Liberty's Edge

ElfDwarf wrote:

Hello. Could you explain, please, how Arrow Eruption works?

1. Do arrow, created with arrow eruption, use bonuses from magus arcane pool buffs(if i buff bow to do additional elemental damage)?

Yes, 'flaming' and similar magic weapon properties are passed from the bow to the arrow, and from that original arrow to the copies created by Arrow Eruption.

ElfDwarf wrote:
2. If 7-th level caster faced 2 enemies and killed one previous round? How much arrows would he direct to last enemy? 1 or 7? Can i select same target multiple times?

You can create up to 7 arrows, but each must target a different enemy... so if there is only one enemy left you can only hit that one.


I don’t believe arcane pool enhancements would work with it, since they are a “limited use magical effect.” The feats and class abilities and such that get to work with Arrow Eruption I think have to be permanent or non limited-use enhancements (like if you have weapon training, Int or Dex to damage, or something of the sort).

You don’t get a number of arrows/attacks equal to your level, you target a number of characters equal to your level. It would fire one arrow per target, no matter the amount of enemies you can target. (Imagine the balance issue of a 7th level Eldritch archer getting to make 9 total attacks vs one enemy with a level 2 spell... that’s why you only get one arrow per target).

Liberty's Edge

RAWmonger wrote:
I don’t believe arcane pool enhancements would work with it, since they are a “limited use magical effect.” The feats and class abilities and such that get to work with Arrow Eruption I think have to be permanent or non limited-use enhancements (like if you have weapon training, Int or Dex to damage, or something of the sort).

"These duplicate arrows possess all the intrinsic magical properties of the arrow that killed the original creature as well as those passed on to it by your bow. They also enjoy the full benefit of any bonuses or modifiers you applied to the attack from other magical items, feats, and class or racial features. However, this spell cannot reproduce any spells or other limited-use magical effects that you used to enhance that particular attack. This includes such effects as the true strike spell, as well as any area spell you might have placed on the arrow by means of the arcane archer’s imbue arrow class feature."

So the question becomes whether a flaming weapon property granted by the Magus's Arcane Pool should be evaluated as a 'class feature' or a 'spell or other limited-use magical effect used to enhance that particular attack'.

Given the 'true strike' and 'area spell' examples, I think "that particular attack" may mean ONLY that attack. Longer term bonuses apply. The alternative, taking 'limited-use' to mean 'anything short of permanent', would likely exclude MOST relevant class features.


My problem with that is that you only have that ability when using your “rounds of x” for it, or for a minute at a time.

What if you cast Arrow Eruption on the round after your minute of enhancement ends? Do you still get the effect that is no longer functioning?

What if you multi classed into inquisitor and use a round of bane when you shoot, but not the next round when you cast this spell. Why would you get bane for it?

So in that scenario, you used one round of your ability, then choose not to use it the next round when you cast Arrow Eruption, but you still get its effect on all targets hit by the arrows?

There’s plenty of permanent, near-permanent, or not “limited use” effects out there. I think it’s clearly drawing the line at if you can normally always use this ability without a use/day or recharge function.


I agree with CBDunkerson.

A Magus'arcane pool is limited by duration, but has no limit on how many arrows it affects.

If you had Snap Shot and 30 DEX you could theoretically get 10 extra attacks per round with this, and they wouldn't "use up" your arcane pool. That's the distinction I think they're trying to make. A bonus that isn't "used up" with each hit (eg. True Strike, or a spell delivered with Ranged Spellstrike) wouldn't work as they have "charges" which would be used.


RAWmonger wrote:

My problem with that is that you only have that ability when using your “rounds of x” for it, or for a minute at a time.

What if you cast Arrow Eruption on the round after your minute of enhancement ends? Do you still get the effect that is no longer functioning?

Then it wouldn't function. You'd have to do it while the arcane pool enhancement was still in effect. It'd work fine during that period.

Quote:
What if you multi classed into inquisitor and use a round of bane when you shoot, but not the next round when you cast this spell. Why would you get bane for it?

You wouldn't. You'd need to expend a round of bane to get the benefit.

Quote:
So in that scenario, you used one round of your ability, then choose not to use it the next round when you cast Arrow Eruption, but you still get its effect on all targets hit by the arrows?

No. You get the bonuses that you can apply at the moment you cast the spell. Bonuses from magical effects that only apply to a single attack* won't be applied. Everything else is fine.

*or, technically, any finite-specified number of attacks, so a theoretical spell that gives you +10 on your next 7 attacks wouldn't apply either. Another theoretical spell that gives you +10 on all attacks for 7 rounds, however, would apply because until those 7 rounds have elapsed, there is no limit on the number of attacks to which the bonus applies.


Limited would be something like an arcane archers slaying arrow. Once used it's done.

Something like bards song is limited in rounds but clearly works for this power.

I think magus given abilities like flaming are fine. They, like bard song are limited in rounds but not expended for the round once used.

If it is used on a single attack (slaying arrow, true strike..) then it wouldn't get to be used again on the eruption.

Liberty's Edge

I think the intent was to prevent Arrow Eruption from creating a force multiplier on things which are specifically intended to be limited. That is, you shouldn't be able to get the effect of True Strike or Slaying fifteen times (rather than just once) by casting Arrow Eruption.

Take Vital Strike for example. This is meant to be a one attack per round ability. However, as written, it could easily be assumed that you can kill a single enemy with Greater Vital Strike and then cast Arrow Eruption the next round to hit 15 enemies with Greater Vital Strike.

I wouldn't allow that because it is multiplying an ability which is meant to be limited... even though that ability isn't a 'spell or magical effect' as per the limitation in the description.

Conversely, attackers can easily get multiple strikes in a round with a temporary 'flaming' weapon enhancement... so they should be able to do the same with Arrow Eruption.

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