I am very intrigued with this new Adventure Path, and have wanted to run a circus-themed campaign since "The Jinglng Mordo Circus" from way back in the early years of Dungeon magazine.
While I have nothing against 2e, I am not currently looking to move on from 1e (yeah, I'm a grognard) as I have more 1e stuff than I'll ever be able to play. That being said, are there any "simple" guidelines for back converting an NPC to 1e? When I see a 2e stat block, I don't see a class or level listed. I suppose reading the 2e book would alleviate that issue, but hey, I'm being lazy.
So if any of you esteemed board members have any tips, tricks, ideas, or suggestions, I will wholeheartedly take them and thank you profusely.
(And, it should go without saying, this is NOT in any way a sneaky way to start any edition wars. Not my intention in the least. Thank you for your patronage.)
Problem I see is that PF2 statblocks are not necessarily build like PCs (though they can be).
So it would need some retroengineering by the way of imagining how a PF2 PC would be built to get the stats in the block, and then put it back in PF1 ruleset.
I am not sure how straightforward this is. Surely by now some enterprising souls have tried this conversion. Maybe there are things in the PF2 conversion or homebrew boards about this.
Maybe there is a way to get stats that are good enough to fight against, talk to, interact with etc without them being full buildable NPCs?
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Well, the circus performer NPCs and their rules have very little to do with specific PF2 rules, so converting that subsystem should be possible.
As for more general conversion advice (of monsters and NPCs), I have only one suggestion: don't. (But this should really be discussed in a much more general forum than this one)
Just create NPCs and monsters using PF1 rules (or use preexisting stat blocks).
There's very little to be gained from trying to make PF2:ish PF1 characters. The two rulesystems are completely and utterly different, so I wouldn't even try.
That said
Quote: When I see a 2e stat block, I don't see a class or level listed. Every character, NPC or monster has a level clearly listed. So that part is easy.
NPCs are built like monsters, meaning they don't follow the player character character generation rules of the Core Rulebook. A swordsman NPC might have Fighter feats, but might not - instead having unique abilities no PC Fighter can do. A Monk-like NPC does not have to have the same attack or defense abilities as a PC Monk. And so on.
In fact, monsters (and NPCs) of a certain level are generally stronger than any given PC of that level. I would certainly suggest that you add at least 20%-50% to the NPC's level when you convert from PF2 to PF1, if you want that NPC to come even close to the challenge it poses in PF2.
A level 10 NPC in PF2 poses a significant challenge to a whole PF2 party of 10th level characters, even alone. If I remember correctly, a single level 10 NPC is not even a roadbump to a level 10 party in PF1.
Again, you're much better off just reading the textual description of the NPC (possibly drawing additional inspiration from any picture), and then recreating that in PF1 in the same way you're used to, not trying any direct conversion.
A level 10 PF2 NPC is equivalent to a level 10 PF2 PC because they can be built with the PC rules too. If done this way, they will usually be a bit more rounded than with the "like a PF2 monster" way, just like PCs are. But they are definitely in the same range of challenge. Same for the PF2 monsters. The game is just built that way.
However, the challenge such a PF2 character or monster would be to a level 6 party is hugely different. In PF1 it is manageable. In PF2 it is a TPK.
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Zapp wrote: NPCs are built like monsters, meaning they don't follow the player character character generation rules of the Core Rulebook. A swordsman NPC might have Fighter feats, but might not - instead having unique abilities no PC Fighter can do. A Monk-like NPC does not have to have the same attack or defense abilities as a PC Monk. And so on. Okay, now it makes much more sense. Not having the 2e books I didn't know there was an alternate NPC building system.
Thanks for the explanation. And to you, too, Raven.
The Raven Black wrote: A level 10 PF2 NPC is equivalent to a level 10 PF2 PC because they can be built with the PC rules too. If done this way, they will usually be a bit more rounded than with the "like a PF2 monster" way, just like PCs are. But they are definitely in the same range of challenge. Same for the PF2 monsters. The game is just built that way. Yeah, no, a monster-built NPC can have a huge increase in, say, damage and still be "legit" (within the very loose guidelines) compared to a PC (whether played by a player or the GM).
So while the idea a NPC "must" be equivalent to a PC because they can be built as one might be tempting and make sense, it isn't actually the case.
What "player-built" NPCs offer that "monster-built" NPCs usually don't, is flexibility. Out of combat options - most monsters are only there to fight. Ability to project force over a longer timespan - most monsters are built to last 3-6 combat rounds and don't "need" abilities that take them through the day.
But in terms of sheer combat power, it is trivial to create a monster/NPC that dominates a PC-built character. Just look at the monsters in the Bestiary. I would say any given monster easily gives at least two PC characters a run for their money (all of the same level).
Quote:
However, the challenge such a PF2 character or monster would be to a level 6 party is hugely different. In PF1 it is manageable. In PF2 it is a TPK.
Not sure what this refers to, but just to make sure...:
I am not advocating my 20-50% increase when you play PF2. Only when you see a PF2 monster/NPC and wonder what PF1 level best approximates a combat challenge.
If the party is sixth level, a 9th level PF1 NPC likely offers *less* of combat challenge (to a non-weak PF1 party) than a 6th level PF2 NPC (to any PF2 party). As I remember it, humanoid NPCs are notoriously weak, except maybe high-level rocket-tag spellcasters, partially because they have a significantly lower magic item budget.
If your comment didn't have anything to do with mine, please ignore. Thanks
BV210 wrote: Okay, now it makes much more sense. Not having the 2e books I didn't know there was an alternate NPC building system.
Thanks for the explanation. And to you, too, Raven.
You're welcome.
The monster building guidelines aren't actually officially published yet - the Gamesmaster Guide is expected this spring.
That said, they *have* been handed out by Paizo for free as an excerpt to tide us all over until the GMG release.
Mosnster and Hazard creation guide for PF2 is free to download here: Linked
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