| Arivia |
So I'm asking a really stupid, basic question.
In my last session, I had my PCs entering a room with a semi-important object in it (a chest hanging in a cage.) I wanted to see if they would notice it, but I couldn't find anything in the rules equivalent to Passive Perception (from D&D 4e and 5e) or just calling for a Perception check like I would have in Pathfinder 1e.
Everything I looked at seemed to reference the Search exploration activity or the Seek basic action. (There is a note in the GM chapter to go easier on people Searching in areas of big change.) It didn't look like there was just an opportunity for someone to flat out notice something, even if they're not specifically trying to look out. Am I missing something?
| Kirtri |
Well you can approximate a DC by adding 10 to the characters perception but I don't think it's a codified rule.
I'd mention the hanging cages and let them be curious enough to look or not if going that route doesn't work for you. (I could also see letting anyone who has a certain training or above in perception see it as a quick way to decide. So if something is kind of hard to see Expierienced, really hard master, almost impossible legendary)
| Castilliano |
People searching or seeking should get an active Perception check (not that "active" has a formal game usage.) If you deem the chest doesn't take appreciable effort to spot, then you might also roll passive checks for each player.
In this specific instance, as Kirtri mentions, they might take interest in the obvious cages, getting each PC another Perception check. Is this dungeon dressing, a clue, or hiding a lever or treasure? If they blow right through, then yes, the party might miss the chest.
The amount of description (a.k.a. screen time) you give the room will likely tip them off to whether they should investigate further or not. A bit meta (for better or worse), yet who wants to spend play time on irrelevant areas, right? (Another reason to limit irrelevant areas!)
Goldryno
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So not sure if this is 100% correct but I've taken my queue from the text in Detecting A Hazard (Source Core Rulebook pg. 520):
"During exploration, determine whether the party detects a hazard when the PCs first enter the general area in which it appears. If the hazard doesn’t list a minimum proficiency rank, roll a secret Perception check against the hazard’s Stealth DC for each PC. For hazards with a minimum proficiency rank, roll only if someone is actively searching (using the Search activity while exploring or the Seek action in an encounter), and only if they have the listed proficiency rank or higher."
Which is to say we basically assume that the party is always some level of aware and searching even when not taking the more in depth search action. Their "passive perception" essentially amounts to the rolling of Secret Perception checks that you would make when they enter the vicinity of something important. Of course for anything especially well hidden or disguised they'd need to actually be taking the search action to find it just like hazards that require a proficiency.
I would then use the guidelines for Search to determine what they find and whether they miss what is important. Also to determine if you only give them a jumping off point to search for things closer (ie you may tell them they find a strange important looking cabinet if they roll high enough but it is up to them to decide whether or not they spend time to further search it for documents). You may have to make some judgement calls yourself in regards to DC as I am not sure every important but hard to find item will have a Stealth DC listed.
| beowulf99 |
For my part, unless the chest is particularly hidden, I wouldn't even require a perception check. If the chest is hidden I would use a level appropriate dc adjusted for just how well hidden I want the chest to be.
For example if the party is lvl 4 start with a DC of 19, then if you believe this should be a hard check adjust the dc by 5 for a total of 24.
Jared Walter 356
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For my part, unless the chest is particularly hidden, I wouldn't even require a perception check. If the chest is hidden I would use a level appropriate dc adjusted for just how well hidden I want the chest to be.
For example if the party is lvl 4 start with a DC of 19, then if you believe this should be a hard check adjust the dc by 5 for a total of 24.
I agree with Beowulf on this one. If it's in clear sight it should be automatic.
You could have the object make a "stealth" check against the players perception DCs, or have each player make a perception check. Generally, I'd only call for a perception check if some effort has been made to obscure it, or possibly environmental changes have partially buried it.
In Pathfinder 2 terms, a "passive perception check" is really a stealth against the Perception DC (10+perception bonus). You could roll this stealth check before hand or just assign it a value and compare to the perception DC.