Commoner Class (Feedback Needed)

[Koboldking15]

Hi everyone, this is my first post here, as well as my first homebrewed anything. I've always liked playing as commoners; there's a thrill to be had when playing as a farmhand or blacksmith. It makes even the weakest enemies deadly. Anyway, here's a class I whipped up after a wisdom tooth extraction, so it's not perfect. It's the most barebones class I could think of. What do you guys think?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EN5-K9eJWsIe6FCNATBlLXODRu-d0U9Jof9ByTX 8mhs/edit?usp=sharing

Let me know if the link isn't working.

[ApoApostolov]

The links is not working.

[Koboldking15]

Don't you love when you don't hit confirm?
Sorry, the link should be working!

[ApoApostolov]

I am really sorry for repeating myself, but it is still not working.

[Koboldking15]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EN5-K9eJWsIe6FCNATBlLXODRu-d0U9Jof9ByTX 8mhs/edit?usp=sharing

It's my fault, don't be sorry. If this doesnt work I'll have to make it on another document or something.

[corwyn42]

The Paizo forum page introduced a space between the X and 8 characters in the URL. The link worked when I removed the space, but when I tried to paste it back into an updated post the space was re-introduced. You will need to copy/paste the link and manually remove the space.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EN5-K9eJWsIe6FCNATBlLXODRu-d0U9Jof9ByTX 8mhs/edit?usp=sharing
___________________________________________________________________________ _____________^remove this space

[corwyn42]

It looks like the Forum Submit Post code introduces the space after 75 consecutive characters:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EN5-K9eJWsIe6FCNATBlLXODRu-d0U9Jof9ByTX 8mhs/edit?usp=sharing
123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345 678901234567890
However, if you format the code using the proper formatting as shown in the How to format your text, the link works without changing anything:
Commoner PF 2E Class

[Indi523]

Koboldking15 wrote:

Don't you love when you don't hit confirm?

Sorry, the link should be working!

...

Ok was able to get there manually by removing that space. There is a bug with the link program evidently. You might try entering the link itself in as HTML code but I am not sure if there program will allow it.
...
Any moderators out there, you might want to report this issue to whoever is in charge to they can analyze what is happening and fix it.
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Any rate it seems to me what you are doing is giving a commoner 3 skills plus intelligence modifier, trained in one saving throw and the commoner Dc. You are giving them all the skill, general and ancestry feats and no class abilities. I did not see armor or weapons training but probably missed it.
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Since the idea is to make the class weak as a challenge this is fine but I would recommend that you include the class feats as well. Don't make any commoner class feats. Instead allow a player to take a dedication and thus all class abilities the character learns are the lessor multiclass version.

I think this makes sense because while a farmhand may start out knowing nothing of combat, if you put him in with a group of adventurers and force him to fight goblins and such he will eventually learn the abilities of classes. It also means the class is not so bland for player characters.

[Indi523]

PS: You could then make various commoner type class feats that specialize in things NPC's typically do such as lawyer, apothecary, merchant, etc.

these feats should not be real useful in combat but would be useful out of combat for the utility things people do in down time out of town. A lot of it would be profession based.

In this way commoners that take these feats would experts etc.

[BellyBeard]

NPC design is very different in the new edition. With the new design philosophy, all first level creatures (including NPCs and even PCs) should be roughly equal in power, and NPCs do not have classes. Of course a level 1 barbarian is probably more powerful than a level 1 sorcerer in most combat situations, but that's the idea. Based on this, I don't think your level 1 commoner has roughly the same combative power as a level 1 fighter or wizard, and I don't think commoner as a class needs to exist. If you haven't seen it I would recommend looking at the Monster Creation Guide. You can use this same guide to make NPCs. A commoner could be a level -1 creature with these rules.

[Indi523]

BellyBeard wrote:

NPC design is very different in the new edition. With the new design philosophy, all first level creatures (including NPCs and even PCs) should be roughly equal in power, and NPCs do not have classes. Of course a level 1 barbarian is probably more powerful than a level 1 sorcerer in most combat situations, but that's the idea. Based on this, I don't think your level 1 commoner has roughly the same combative power as a level 1 fighter or wizard, and I don't think commoner as a class needs to exist. If you haven't seen it I would recommend looking at the Monster Creation Guide. You can use this same guide to make NPCs. A commoner could be a level -1 creature with these rules.

No offense but that can't work for every NPC. The King has to be more than a level one character but there is no reason from him to be a class and power level equal to a PC. thus what this guy is proposing is not a bad idea. Sure most NPC's in town may just be level one knockoffs but not all.

Personally I don't really like the idea of advancement or whatever for most monsters that are humanoid in design or intelligent. I like the idea of leveling them up via class ability because it allows me as a DM to better gauge power levels. I just cannot see it working.

I have expressed my displeasure with this from the Bestiary where creatures like say the drow are just listed with various hit points and powers. It is too cookie cutter and takes from creativity to make it simple. It sucks and for myself I will find a way to add levels the way you do in 1e because that makes more sense. I like the idea that a 20th level party can meet a group of goblins which are their equals.

Thus exploring another ways to do this with house rules works for me better.

[Gorbacz]

So you just take NPC guidelines, set your king's combat stats to be better than a commoner but weaker than a PC, profit. No need for a class to do that.

If you want for a party of level 20 to meet goblins that are their equals you just ... stat those goblins as level 20 (or whatever you need) creatures using the NPC/monster guidelines, give them some appropriate abilities (you can take PC feats as inspiration) and you're done, having spent a fraction of the time you'd take to meticulously build a level 20 goblin only to use 1/5th of its feats/abilities and have the very same math you'd have by going with the guidelines.