Who needs crafting formulas for all melee weapons when shifting runes are a thing?

[FlashRebel]

That's something I noticed: apparently, nothing stops you from turning a shifting metallic weapon into a typically wooden one (it may even be an advantage considering how precious metals are good compared to precious woods), the only limitations are that one-handed weapons remain one-handed, two-handed weapons remain two-handed, melee weapons stay melee weapons and the rune has no effect on ranged weapons.

Then there are the rules on formulas that are extremly nebulous where weapons are concerned: there is no way to know if simply having the formula for a weapon allows the use of any valid material for it, or if formulas for using these materials are needed as well, or even if every weapon of every material, including each separate grade, needs its own unique formula.

Well since a 225gp rune that allows melee weapons to change into any other melee weapon that takes the same number of hands exists and is available at level 6, why bother with the logistics of hoarding formulas and looking for uncommon weapons at all? You can just etch a shifting rune on a dagger and you have access to all one-handed melee weapons for the price of one. You can do the same with a greatsword to have access to all two-handed melee weapons.

Did I miss something or does the shifting rune literally invalidate the need to learn how to create specific melee weapons as long as you know a handful of them?

[Shisumo]

I only get three property runes total over the lifetime of my character. I won't get a second one until half that lifetime is gone. I really don't see wasting a rune slot on shifting unless I have a specific need for it.

[Dragonchess Player]

Basically, because a given weapon can only have a limited number of property runes. Using one of them for the shifting rune may prevent being able to add returning, ghost touch, disrupting, etc. to the weapon.

Also, "[y]ou can’t etch any property runes onto a specific weapon that it doesn’t already have." So a scrollstaff, retribution axe, dagger of venom, bloodletting kukri, etc. can never have a shifting rune added (although the potency and striking fundamental runes can be added/improved).

[FlashRebel]

Shisumo wrote:

I only get three property runes total over the lifetime of my character. I won't get a second one until half that lifetime is gone. I really don't see wasting a rune slot on shifting unless I have a specific need for it.

Not having to go through hoops to get uncommon crafting formulas is not that specific of a need. Above all considering that uncommon weapons offer unique options and are generally simply better than common weapons. Plus you have a single set of runes on a weapon that can take at least 20 different forms, quite a cost saver.

[Qaianna]

I don't know how the economy is yet, but 225 gp might be a significant outlay. And if nothing else, for the level one commoners and such they're not going to drop that much to get an any-weapon. They'll just buy a sword or axe and deal with it.

And now here's the kicker: how do you know what to morph it into? Fighter Fiona may need to explain just what she's going for with the shifting rune. Would you honestly be able to envision a flickmace or even a katana well enough for a magical thing to understand? I'd say no -- if you don't have access to the thing you're wanting, you can't shifting rune to do it because you don't know it enough for the magic to take effect. It'd be like trying to use a shifting rune on a dagger and trying to turn it into a d'k tahg. Without looking it up.

[FlashRebel]

Qaianna wrote:

I don't know how the economy is yet, but 225 gp might be a significant outlay. And if nothing else, for the level one commoners and such they're not going to drop that much to get an any-weapon. They'll just buy a sword or axe and deal with it.

And now here's the kicker: how do you know what to morph it into? Fighter Fiona may need to explain just what she's going for with the shifting rune. Would you honestly be able to envision a flickmace or even a katana well enough for a magical thing to understand? I'd say no -- if you don't have access to the thing you're wanting, you can't shifting rune to do it because you don't know it enough for the magic to take effect. It'd be like trying to use a shifting rune on a dagger and trying to turn it into a d'k tahg. Without looking it up.

Actually an excellent point. I had totally overlooked the way envisioning works.

[Staffan Johansson]

FlashRebel wrote:

Not having to go through hoops to get uncommon crafting formulas is not that specific of a need. Above all considering that uncommon weapons offer unique options and are generally simply better than common weapons. Plus you have a single set of runes on a weapon that can take at least 20 different forms, quite a cost saver.

It's not quite right to say that uncommon weapons are better. For example, compare a temple sword (d8, monk, trip, uncommon) to a warhammer (d8, shove), or a battle axe (d8, sweep). Monk just indicates that you get proficiency in it from the Monastic Weaponry feat, so it doesn't really do anything on its own, and Trip, Shove, and Sweep are all approximately balanced.

The weapons that are better are the Advanced ones - but they're better because they're Advanced, not because they're Uncommon. That means that they're mostly off-limits to non-fighters, and even fighters are at -2 with them (because of proficiency) unless they have taken the Advanced Weapon Training feat.

However, most of these weapons have ways of downgrading their difficulty. The most common ones (so far) are the ancestral weapon feats, which usually say something like "For the purpose of determining your proficiency, martial ________ weapons are simple weapons and advanced _______ weapons are martial weapons."

TL;DR: The limitation on the really good weapons is usually proficiency category, not rarity.

Edit: That said, the Champion in our party has found it very useful to use his blade ally to make a +1 shifting, returning, striking weapon (I'm not sure if the weapon has an inherent shifting rune and the blade ally makes it returning or the other way around) in combination with Ranged Reprisal to vastly increase the zone he controls in battle. Shift it to a trident when a large zone is needed, or to a hammer or axe in order to use those special abilities, or a bastard sword if you need to drop your shield and deal heavy damage.