Recognize Spell lets you identify the spell. That's all. Without it, you likely don't know anything about the spell except for what the GM describes to you. With it, you know everything there is to know about the spell.
That's valuable intel that can inform you on some of the best ways to deal with it.
Recognize Spell on its own is extremely valuable for just that reason.
You don't need Recognize Spell to Counterspell if you know the spell (it is prepared or in your repertoire), so Counterspell still remains potentially useful even without Recognize Spell.
Quick Recognition is what really ties it all together though, allowing you to recognize a spell as a free action instead of a reaction, thus freeing up your reaction to also Counterspell.
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A critical success is always good (+1 save or AC)
Quick recognition works outside of your turn.
"A free action might have a trigger like a reaction does. If so, you can use it just like a reaction—even if it’s not your turn. "
"Trigger A creature within line of sight casts a spell that you don’t have prepared or in your spell repertoire, or a trap or similar object casts such a spell. You must be aware of the casting." it is also a reaction by default (so happens outside of your turn)
"Once per round, you can Recognize a Spell using a skill in which you’re a master as a free action."
Once per round, not "on your turn".
The effect is, your reaction is now a free action which as long as there is a trigger can be used outside of your turn.
No ambiguity here, this is how the feats work and are obviously meant to interact.
Now one area of complaint I do have regarding spell identification is the whole "if it is prepared or in your repertoire", meaning the GM must keep a list of spells the characters know or ditching the point of the secret roll in the first place because you have to ask "hey do you know this spell".
I am ignoring it and just giving a +2 if the spell is in their tradition atm while auto succeeding based on proficiency and spell level as the feat directs.
As for why you would do it, knowing what is going on is important regardless of counter spell and you can always call it out to someone else who can counter spell until quick recognition is available.
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What good is it to be able to recognize a spell as it's being cast if you can't do anything about it anyway?
Illusions come to mind.
Im not sure what Recognize Spell feat is good for. Since you just used your reaction, you can't Counter Spell the feat being cast. Quick Recognition does not work with the Recognize Spell feat.
What good is it to be able to recognize a spell as it's being cast if you can't do anything about it anyway?
Uh, if that spell was one you could Counterspell, you'd recognise it for free. You only use Recognise Spell to get the details on spells you do not have prepared.
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What good is it to be able to recognize a spell as it's being cast if you can't do anything about it anyway?Illusions come to mind.
The easiest example is "why did the enemy just vanish." Knowing the difference between invisibility and dimension door is pretty clutch for how you respond to it.
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...to start a side discussion... how does everyone feel about being able to recognise illusions as they’re cast? Say, when that makes you able to just ignore them altogether. Knowing that the wizard cast an illusion right before the doors opened and the guards ran in. That sort of thing.
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...to start a side discussion... how does everyone feel about being able to recognise illusions as they’re cast? Say, when that makes you able to just ignore them altogether. Knowing that the wizard cast an illusion right before the doors opened and the guards ran in. That sort of thing.
Considering until this was brought up I thought the feat was on the weaker side, and now I am on the other end, I like it a lot.
Illusions getting undone by that means conceal spell becomes more valuable for illusionists as well, which is extremely fitting for an illusionist IMO.
This whole interaction has just become a lot more fascinating on the examples provided (CM’s dimension door vs invisibility and just illusions in general). It gives a lot more depth and subtle notes that really emphasize some flavorful identities. Sending someone that can do this against an illusionist and then having an illusionist who uses concealment, conceal spell, and other obscuring methods to counter them sounds fun.
Considering until this was brought up I thought the feat was on the weaker side, and now I am on the other end, I like it a lot.
Illusions getting undone by that means conceal spell becomes more valuable for illusionists as well, which is extremely fitting for an illusionist IMO.
This whole interaction has just become a lot more fascinating on the examples provided (CM’s dimension door vs invisibility and just illusions in general). It gives a lot more depth and subtle notes that really emphasize some flavorful identities. Sending someone that can do this against an illusionist and then having an illusionist who uses concealment, conceal spell, and other obscuring methods to counter them sounds fun.
Don't forget that if you have the spell, you automatically recognise it anyway.
So Recognise Spell itself is even more circumstantial. And it still costs a feat to learn, despite requiring 4 different skills to actually get use out of it.
Also unclear is if you can still try to roll to recognise the spell you recognise anyway, hoping for that +1 to saves against the spell.
Honestly, I think they messed up and should not include the automatically recognise a spell you know.
And counterspelling is a mess (unless you are a Bard). I would give Recognise Spell and Counterspell feat for free to all casters anyway.
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I've made identifying a spell being cast a free action baseline in my house rules. The Recognize Spell feat now just grants the scaling auto-identify and the crit success effect. I don't know if that leaves the feat in a truly bad place, but that's not my ultimate concern.
I'd prefer to encourage players to try to identify spells being cast without using up valuable resources like reactions. The same is true for most recall knowledge type checks. As soon as probing your character's knowledge takes resources, the ole metagame method of memorizing the bestiary or the spell lists becomes a lot more attractive.
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Also unclear is if you can still try to roll to recognise the spell you recognise anyway, hoping for that +1 to saves against the spell.
I thought this was explicitly called out. You rolled anyways in case you got the crit success.
Maybe I'm mixing it up with another ability I read recently.
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I thought this was explicitly called out. You rolled anyways in case you got the crit success.
Maybe I'm mixing it up with another ability I read recently.
It is explicitly pointed out in this ability, must be me that mixed it up with another where it isn't clear.
...to start a side discussion... how does everyone feel about being able to recognise illusions as they’re cast? Say, when that makes you able to just ignore them altogether. Knowing that the wizard cast an illusion right before the doors opened and the guards ran in. That sort of thing.
I think it's in a good place. It takes some investment instead of being a free for all ability, there is a chance of failing against the stronger spells, and identifying the illusion doesn't directly counteract it so there are ways for illusionists to still hamper foes who know it is all trickery.
Take illusory object for example. Knowing the wizard cast illusory object before a wall of stone appeared blocking line of sight means you know you can walk through the wall and if you look at it hard enough you can see through it. That's pretty good knowledge to have, but you still lose actions moving/looking through the wall, and the wizard still had some time without you looking to stride somewhere unseen. So the spell wasn't completely trivialized, but you still benefited from having the ability to spot the trick before it happened. Feels like a decent balance.
For the specific case of casting an illusion right before the doors opened and guards ran in, mechanics make that kinda hard to pull off anyway. For the entire thing to be an illusion you need illusory scene, which takes 10 minutes to cast anyway. You could throw an illusory guard in with illusory creature, but the timing on that extra guard coming in is hard to pull off.