PF2 Rogue Surprise Attack


Rules Discussion


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber

Recently played a scenario with Rogue. The situation was that our party entered the clearing area with creatures we spotted and were not yet in encounter mode. We rolled high enough knowledge check (nature I believe) to know they were dangerous and then decided we would attack them. GM called for initiative. Since I am Rogue I told GM I was rolling Stealth for initiative (i.e. Surprise Attack). However, GM ruled that because I wasn’t actively trying to sneak that I couldn’t and had to use Perception. So I did and game went on. But as I read the rule it isn’t a feature related to sneaking necessarily and, in fact, could role deception as well. Seems that the Rogue gets this just because they tend to react faster than other foes not because they’re trying to sneak (rule below). Which is correct?

Surprise Attack
You spring into combat faster than foes can react. On the first round of combat, if you roll Deception or Stealth for initiative, creatures that haven’t acted are flat-footed to you.


Flagged for movement to second edition forums.

Liberty's Edge

Wrong forum (flagged). That notwithstanding it seems that your GM is right.

CRB 2nd edictio wrote:

Step 1: Roll Initiative

When the GM calls for it, you’ll roll initiative to determine your place in the initiative order, which is the sequence in which the encounter’s participants will take their turns. Rolling initiative marks the start of an encounter. More often than not, you’ll roll initiative when you enter a battle.
Typically, you’ll roll a Perception check to determine your initiative—the more aware you are of your surroundings, the more quickly you can respond. Sometimes, though, the GM might call on you to roll some other type of check. For instance, if you were Avoiding Notice during exploration (page 479), you’d roll a Stealth check. A social encounter could call for a Deception or Diplomacy check.

So, unless you where Avoiding notice and suffering the relative drawbacks, you had to roll Perception.

CRB 2nd edictio wrote:


AVOID NOTICE
EXPLORATION
You attempt a Stealth check to avoid notice while traveling at half speed. If you have the Swift Sneak feat, you can move at full Speed rather than half, but you still [b]can’t use another exploration activity while you do so[b]. If you have the Legendary Sneak feat, you can move at full Speed and use a second exploration activity. If you’re Avoiding Notice at the start of an encounter, you usually roll a Stealth check instead of a Perception check both to determine your initiative and to see if the enemies notice you (based on their Perception DCs, as normal for Sneak, regardless of their initiative check results).

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