Breath of Life regarding the 1 round time limit

[PhantomOTO]

I have a question about the 1 round specifically noted in the Breath of Life spell. This came up in our game and I am just looking for clarification. Here is the actual example

Initiative Line Up
1. Someone
2. Party Member that was slain
3. ME
4. Enemy

There were more people on the board, but this is really all that matter. I am the cleric in position 3. The enemy in position 4 killed my party member in position 2 of the initiative tracker on his turn. I read the 1 round time frame for Breath of Life as I have a chance, before enemy goes on turn 4, to cast Breath of Life and try to bring back my dying/dead party member. The DM said as soon as the party members turn comes, he dies and Breath of Life cannot be used on him to bring him back.

So my question is am I right in thinking I have a chance to bring him back with Breath of Life or is the DM right in saying as soon as we hit the top of the initiative tracker that the 1 round needed to use it has past and Breath of Life will not work?

[avr]

The party member dies when they're killed, not when their initiative comes after that. Breath of life works on 'If cast upon a creature that has died within 1 round'. Within 1 round isn't the same as since the start of this round.

So yes, you're right here PhantomOTO.

[MrCharisma]

Agree entirely with avr. It's the correct answer by the rules, and also the only fair way to rule a spell who's entire purpose is to save the lives of your allies.

Any status effect (buffs, debuffs, death, etc) happen on an initiative count, not necessarily that of the person being affected. Counting rounds of effect happens on the same initiative count, not on a specific person's turn. This is important because people can delay/ready actions (even if it were counting to a person it would be counting to the enemy who killed your ally).

I normally say that you should accept your GM's ruling - even if it's wrong - but in this case a PC died. Provided the game hasn't moved much further than this it shouldn't be hard to ret-con. If it has moved on significantly then it might be better to move on, but the GM should learn from this and the dead PC's player should get some sympathy at least (as the GM I'd give them a bottle-cap/Hero-Point/etc if I wasn't able to bring their character back).

[PhantomOTO]

avr wrote:

The party member dies when they're killed, not when their initiative comes after that. Breath of life works on 'If cast upon a creature that has died within 1 round'. Within 1 round isn't the same as since the start of this round.

So yes, you're right here PhantomOTO.

I just want to get as much input as possible and complete information so I can present this logically for debate in our game for future events.

The biggest part of the discussion is "What constitutes 1 round" in the game. Here is what is said in the Core Handbook on page 178.

"When the rules refer to a "full round", they usually mean a span of time from a particular initiative count in one round to the same initiative count in the next round. Effects that last a certain number of rounds end just before the same initiative count that they began on."

When someone is casting a spell on their turn that last for 1 round, this means that at the top of their next turn, the spell either takes effect (if it takes 1 round to cast) or it ends (if it was a standard action and last for 1 round). So I just want to make sure that this same time frame works regarding Breath of Life and the 1 round description in the Core Handbook. Again, I read it as the player died on initiative 4's actions. Breath of Life can save that players life if cast before the top of the turn on initiative 4 the following round.

Thank you again, everyone.

[Captain Zoom]

PhantomOTO wrote:

avr wrote:

The party member dies when they're killed, not when their initiative comes after that. Breath of life works on 'If cast upon a creature that has died within 1 round'. Within 1 round isn't the same as since the start of this round.

So yes, you're right here PhantomOTO.

I just want to get as much input as possible and complete information so I can present this logically for debate in our game for future events.

The biggest part of the discussion is "What constitutes 1 round" in the game. Here is what is said in the Core Handbook on page 178.

"When the rules refer to a "full round", they usually mean a span of time from a particular initiative count in one round to the same initiative count in the next round. Effects that last a certain number of rounds end just before the same initiative count that they began on."

When someone is casting a spell on their turn that last for 1 round, this means that at the top of their next turn, the spell either takes effect (if it takes 1 round to cast) or it ends (if it was a standard action and last for 1 round). So I just want to make sure that this same time frame works regarding Breath of Life and the 1 round description in the Core Handbook. Again, I read it as the player died on initiative 4's actions. Breath of Life can save that players life if cast before the top of the turn on initiative 4 the following round.

Thank you again, everyone.

Your analysis is correct.