Masterwork & Mithral Armor Check Penalty

[W E Ray]

Masterwork Armor reduces one's Armor Check penalty by one.

Mithral Armor reduces one's Armor Check penalty by three.

Do these reductions stack?

....Reading and rereading the RAW makes me argue that indeed they do stack -- though I see how one could interpret differently.

[MrCharisma]

No they don't stack.

MITHRAL wrote:

Weapons or armors fashioned from mithral are always masterwork items as well; the masterwork cost is included in the prices given below.

Or rather, the masterwork benefit is already included in the stats.

[zza ni]

you can see this if you look at the mithral armors in the magical item section. such as he elven chain-mail
normal chain-mail has 2 max dex, 30% acf and -5 acp.
this one has 4 max dex, 20 % acf and -2 acp. if it was to include masterwork it would have been -1 only

[W E Ray]

Thanks guys!

[dragonhunterq]

MrCharisma wrote:

No they don't stack.

MITHRAL wrote:

Weapons or armors fashioned from mithral are always masterwork items as well; the masterwork cost is included in the prices given below.

Or rather, the masterwork benefit is already included in the stats.

That's not what it says though - nowhere does it say that the benefits of masterwork are included and costs are not the same thing as benefits.

Any suggestion that they stack is vehemently opposed, but no-one has ever satisfactorily explained the rules support for it.

Elven chain is a unique item and not overwhelmingly compelling as it is treated as light armour including for proficiency - which normal mithral chain doesn't.

[Cevah]

dragonhunterq wrote:

MrCharisma wrote:

No they don't stack.

MITHRAL wrote:

Weapons or armors fashioned from mithral are always masterwork items as well; the masterwork cost is included in the prices given below.

Or rather, the masterwork benefit is already included in the stats.

That's not what it says though - nowhere does it say that the benefits of masterwork are included and costs are not the same thing as benefits.

Any suggestion that they stack is vehemently opposed, but no-one has ever satisfactorily explained the rules support for it.

Elven chain is a unique item and not overwhelmingly compelling as it is treated as light armour including for proficiency - which normal mithral chain doesn't.

Since things like Mithral do not have a non-masterwork version, and give stats for the masterwork version, this leads to the assumption that masterwork is already counted.

/cevah

[Java Man]

Listed stats for Mithral Fullplate of Speed support mithral and MW not stacking, can a counter example be found?