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I would like to mention that follow the expert has the auditory trait... so... when it comes to stealth.... -ahem- :p
Yes, but we know that following the expert for stealth to avoid notice is intended to work, since it's the only case where the Quiet Allies feat can be used, so I wouldn't worry about that trait.
Yes, but we know that following the expert for stealth to avoid notice is intended to work, since it's the only case where the Quiet Allies feat can be used, so I wouldn't worry about that trait.
I love the idea that each time they step someone is making sound effect to try and cover it up though :P
I suppose the auditory trait is the expert telling everyone else what to do?
Yes, but we know that following the expert for stealth to avoid notice is intended to work, since it's the only case where the Quiet Allies feat can be used, so I wouldn't worry about that trait.I love the idea that each time they step someone is making sound effect to try and cover it up though :P
Has this been answered yet?
Yesterday we did use Avoid Notice & Follow the Expert & Quiet Allies and my warpriest failed to beat the monsters Perception DC.
What happens for initative for the rest of the group once the encounter starts? Or does the whole group start with my init / roll?
Has this been answered yet?
Yesterday we did use Avoid Notice & Follow the Expert & Quiet Allies and my warpriest failed to beat the monsters Perception DC.
What happens for initative for the rest of the group once the encounter starts? Or does the whole group start with my init / roll?
Everyone rolls stealth for initiative, and people Following the Expert get that bonus. You also include bonuses for cover, though I suppose in most cases it won't stack with the Following the Expert bonus.
Anyone who beats the enemy perception DCs starts undetected (and probably unnoticed depending on rolls) and whoever rolls highest on initiative goes first. For flavor purposes, one of your other friends probably realized you were going to be spotted (heard you snap a twig, saw the enemy turning towards you, etc) and has an opportunity to act before the enemy is finished realizing you're there.
A related question occurs to me: if you fail (but not critically fail) my initiative/Avoid Notice roll, do you start the combat hidden rather than observed? Avoid Notice says it uses the normal rules for Sneak, and that is how Sneak works. Does the enemy need to use actions Seeking you to remove the hidden condition, or can they just move to your position to observe you?
Everyone rolls stealth for initiative, and people Following the Expert get that bonus. You also include bonuses for cover, though I suppose in most cases it won't stack with the Following the Expert bonus.
Anyone who beats the enemy perception DCs starts undetected (and probably unnoticed depending on rolls) and whoever rolls highest on initiative goes first. For flavor purposes, one of your other friends probably realized you were going to be spotted (heard you snap a twig, saw the enemy turning towards you, etc) and has an opportunity to act before the enemy is finished realizing you're there.
Thanks for your answer but I still don't get it, probably because of the transition from exploration mode to encounter mode.
We are in exploration mode and want to bypass a creature using avoid notice. When does the switch to encounter mode happen and if it happens haven't I already rolled initiative (stealth) because this was the thing that caused the switch to happen in the first place? Are we doing it wrong? Should we already be in encounter mode when we notice the creature? What is Follow the expert good for then?
Gosh, the stealth and initiative rules are really a mess. Every single time I think I got them right an more or less irregular case shows up and everything falls apart.
I think I got it figured out:
My char rolls stealth in order to try to bypass the creature in exploration mode. If he succeeds we can bypass it. If he fails the creature has noticed me and an encounter starts.
The party then rolls for initiative using stealth (this time all of us roll, i.e. my char rolls a 2nd time), which could lead to the "paradox" that my char has started the encounter (being the one being noticed), but is undetected by the creature because his second roll was high enough.
Am I correct?
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Nope. It is one roll. The transition from exploration to ecnounter mode happens when you roll *if* you fail. You (and the rest of your party if Quiet Allies isn't in play) make a stealth check and compare it to the perception DC of the creature you're trying bypass, factoring in modifiers like Follow the Expert, Cover, or the creature being asleep. If all of you succeed, no encounter occurs. If one of you fails, those same rolls are going to be used for your initiative, with the successful rolls starting unnoticed and probably going first (and definitely going before you if you failed the check.)
That single stealth check is the bridge between the two modes, both in determining whether an encounter happens and if you are spotted at the beginning of it. So if you fail, at that point only the enemy is going to roll initiative because everyone else already did.
So everyone in my group is starting at my stealth/ini roll and (just) hidden due to quiet allies (no crit fail assumed)?
If this is the case then quiet allies has more drawbacks then I thought because the guys being good at stealth don't even get to roll.
So everyone in my group is starting at my stealth/ini roll and (just) hidden due to quiet allies (no crit fail assumed)?
If this is the case then quiet allies has more drawbacks then I thought because the guys being good at stealth don't even get to roll.
No. They start at their own initiative. Which, if Quiet Allies is in play, I suppose they now have to roll. My post was very specifically if Quiet Allies wasn't in play. If it is, then your allies need to roll stealth checks for initiative since they probably weren't rolling to Avoid Notice.
No. They start at their own initiative. Which, if Quiet Allies is in play, I suppose they now have to roll. My post was very specifically if Quiet Allies wasn't in play. If it is, then your allies need to roll stealth checks for initiative since they probably weren't rolling to Avoid Notice.
Correct , they weren't.
No. They start at their own initiative. Which, if Quiet Allies is in play, I suppose they now have to roll. My post was very specifically if Quiet Allies wasn't in play. If it is, then your allies need to roll stealth checks for initiative since they probably weren't rolling to Avoid Notice.Correct , they weren't.
Let me try stating it this way: Quiet Allies has no effect on initiative other than everyone waiting to see if you failed before rolling their own.
Understood now, thanks.