Fixing Spell DC's

[Nathan Monson]

I feel that spell DC's in Starfinder are too low, and want to fix them. I propose either making all DC's scale at 1/2 level+Casting mod, which is simple but possibly overpowered; or having DC's use double spell level+Casting mod, which is a little more complicated, but preserves the value of high level spell slots. Both options put dc's somewhere in the ballpark i'm aiming for, which is giving casters a approximately 75% chance of effecting equal CR enemies with their highest level spells if they target the enemies bad save.

Which option do you think would be better?

[Hawk Kriegsman]

I am unsure of your math here. Can you show us an example?

The DC of a 1st level spell cast by a 1st level technomancer (Int) or mystic (Wis) with a +4 modifier in the appropriate stat is 15.

Using the Alien Archive:

A CR 1 combatant's worst save is +1. They will save 35% of the time.

A CR 1 expert or spellcaster's worst save is +0. They will save 30% of the time.

At 3rd level the DC of a 2nd level spell cast by a 3rd level
technomancer (Int) or mystic (Wis) with a +4 modifier in the appropriate stat is 17 (adding the +1 for spell focus).

A CR 3 combatant, expert or spellcaster's worst save is +2. They will save 30% of the time.

Pretty consistent with quite a good chance that your highest level spell verses an enemy's worst save will succeed more often than not.

I actually feel that the spell save DCs are fine.

[Cellion]

NPC chance to successfully save against spells actually increase as you rise in level. It may be 30% at 1st or 3rd level, but it rises to 50% by 16th level, even using your highest level slots and including the benefit of spell focus.

@OP: I think both of your solutions are overkill when you add the benefits of spell focus to them. For option A, at 16th level your spell DC is 28 for all your spells. That means that spamming 1st level control spells (like Command, which in Starfinder has a mode that delivers a 1 round daze) becomes rather effective. For option B, at 16th level your spell DC for 6th level spells is 32! That's a 85% chance to fail for equal level enemies if you target their poor save.

Adding a bit more scaling to Spell Focus (think having it scale from +1 to +5 instead of +3) may be enough to give spells the kick you're hoping to give them.

[Nathan Monson]

These numbers are assuming maximum Casting stat, with personal upgrades installed at level+ spell focus when appropriate.
1st level DC15(10+4 mod +1) CR1 Saves +1/+3/+4(Saves on a 16 or 11)fine
2nd Level DC15(10+4 mod +1) CR2 Saves +1/+4/+5(Saves on a 15 or 11)fine
3rd level DC17(10+5 Mod +1 +Spell focus 1) CR3 Saves +2/+5/+6(Saves on a 15 or 11) Fine
4th Level DC18(10+5 Mod +2 +SF 1) CR4 Saves +3/+6/+7(Saves on a 15 or 11) Fine
5th Level DC18(10+5 Mod +2 +SF 1) CR5 Saves +4/+7/+8(Saves on a 14 or 10) fine
6Th Level DC18(10+5 Mod +2 +SF 1) CR6 Saves +5/+8/+9(Saves on a 13 or 9) Less fine
7th level DC20(10+6 Mod +3 +SF 1) CR7 Saves +6/+9/+10(Saves on a 14 or 10) fine
8th Level DC20(10+6 Mod +3 +SF 1) CR8 Saves +7/+10/+11(saves on a 13 or 9) less fine
9th level DC20(10+6 Mod +3 +SF 1) CR9 Saves +8/+11/+12(save on a 12 or 8) bad
10th Level DC22(10+7 mod +4 +SF 1) CR10 Saves +9/+12/+13(Save on a 13 or 9) less fine
11th Level DC23(10+7 mod +4 +SF 2) CR11 Saves +10/+13/+14(Save on a 13 or 9) less fine
12th Level DC23(10+7 mod +4 +SF 2) CR12 Saves +11/+14/+15(Save on a 12 or 8) bad
13th level DC24(10+7 mod +5 +SF 2) CR13 Saves +12/+15/+16(save on a 12 or 8) bad
14th level DC25(10+8 Mod +5 +SF 2) CR14 Saves +12/+16/+17(Save on a 13 or 8)less fine
15th Level DC25(10+8 Mod +5 +SF 2) CR15 Saves +13/+17/+18(Save on a 12 or 7) bad
16th Level DC26(10+8 mod +6 +SF 2) CR16 Saves +14/+18/+19(save on a 12 or 7) bad
17th Level DC27(10+8 mod +6 +SF 3) CR17 Saves +15/+19/+20(save on a 12 or 7) bad
18th level DC27(10+8 mod +6 +SF 3) CR18 Saves +16/+19/+20(Save on a 11 or 7) Bad
19th Level DC27(10+8 Mod +6 +SF 3) CR19 Saves +16/+20/+21(Save on a 11 or 6) bad
20th level DC28(10+9 Mod +6 +SF 3) CR20 Saves +17/+21/+22(Save on a 11 or 6)
The problem isn't quite as bad as I though, I had been calculating the DC's as 1 lower, but its still there, especially given that Every Creature type Graft(except for constructs), and most class grafts give +2 to at least 1 kind of save. I think Cellion is right, the best solution would be making Spell focus Scale better to Keep up with monster DC's

[Matt Goodall]

Try half caster level (round up) instead of spell level when calculating spell DC. That will give you a constant line of about 14-15.

[Metaphysician]

Cellion wrote:

NPC chance to successfully save against spells actually increase as you rise in level. It may be 30% at 1st or 3rd level, but it rises to 50% by 16th level, even using your highest level slots and including the benefit of spell focus.

Yes, but the effects of a failed save ( or even a passed save! ) have *also* gone up, a lot. That has to be factored in. Think of it as the status equivalent of DPS: chance to fail save * effects of failed save.

Or, the villains need those 50% save success rates, because at level 16, failing a save screws them *much* more thoroughly than at level 1. At level 1, it might mean losing an action. At level 16, it might mean your head exploding. . . and also losing an action. *ahem*