Skeleton [and Zombie] abilities baseline for Bestiary entries


Rules Discussion


The Skeleton type or trait says "Most skeletons have one of these abilities. If you give a skeleton more, you might want to increase its level and adjust its statistics." referencing Bloody, Explosive Death, and Screaming Skull abilities.

Yet none of the given specific Skeletons have any of these abilities listed.
Is it intended that those specific Skeletons should be given one of the listed abilities automatically (randomly, or by choice),
or are they complete for their Level without those abilities (and adding them would be appropriate for higher level Skeleton)?
(i.e. the given abilities are just for custom building OTHER Skeleton enemies)

"Most skeletons have one of these abilities" is just rather vague, so I'm not sure how to handle the given examples that don't mention these abilities...???


When you make a skeleton for the party to fight you are supposed to give one of these abilities, with Zombies and Liches you are supposed to do the same.


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Quandary wrote:

The Skeleton type or trait says "Most skeletons have one of these abilities. If you give a skeleton more, you might want to increase its level and adjust its statistics." referencing Bloody, Explosive Death, and Screaming Skull abilities.

Yet none of the given specific Skeletons have any of these abilities listed.
Is it intended that those specific Skeletons should be given one of the listed abilities automatically (randomly, or by choice), or are they complete for their Level without those abilities (and adding them would be appropriate for higher level Skeleton)?

"Most skeletons have one of these abilities" is just rather vague, so I'm not sure how to handle the given examples that don't mention these abilities...???

I believe the intent is the first option you listed:

You take those baseline skeletons, pick one of the fun abilities, and then that's your actual skeleton.

I've enjoyed having a variety of skeletons during the different encounters my players have had in a certain pre-written adventure, but I'm not sure they actually put together the differences in exploding skeletons versus other stuff. The downside is that it's super easy to forget to add an extra ability, which I did in the last fight I had them do (but they weren't the main focus of the fight, so it probably mattered less).

edit: ninja'd


Alright, it's just weird cause it's so unclear... At least in Lich's case those are all explicitly "optional replacements" for baseline abilities, i.e. swapping with statblock not 'assumed you add these on top' ("most of the time"), so statblock as written is fully complete.

Looking at Zombies, it's weird because Plague Zombie has Zombie Rot, yet a generic Zombie ability is Plague-Ridden, which is basically the same as Zombie Rot. So should another random Zombie ability be added to Plague Zombies, or do they already include their allotment?

I guess leaving generic Zombie ability slot "open" might be what they are aiming to achieve by making Zombie Rot nominally distinct from Plague-Ridden (even though there is no functional difference), but it just seems so obtuse... Better to just state it has Plague-Ridden (and avoid stupid duplication/dependency between the 2 abilities) AND one other generic Zombie ability (meaning this stat block is designed around 2 Zombie abilities, above the norm, but anticipated by generic Zombie ability rules which says that needs higher level).

I feel like it would be clearer if the statblocks generally had explicit line "add one Zombie ability of choice", or potentially add two or three for higher level Zombies. That way they can specify any abilities they want (even directly pulling from generic list), and leave the amount of random abilities explicit (and clearly indicating it requires GM choice of abilities from list).

The "most of" wording just leaves things in a grey zone, since it implicitly assumes it's possible SOME skeletons/zombies/etc DON'T have random abilities chosen from the list added to their stat block. I guess those can have line in their statblock "and don't add any extra abilities", but that seems weird, I'd rather have explicit mention "add #X generic abilities from list" which also serves as "reminder" so GM doesn't forget to do that.


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Quandary wrote:
Alright, it's just weird cause it's so unclear...

All good and valid points, but my experience has been that at worst you get vanilla skeletons, and at best you get cool weird extra abilities to surprise players with.

You'll likely see some variation in published adventures as to whether they call out what kind of skeletons they are, but your encounter

published example:
The first Age of Ashes adventure, which I believe Amanda said was largely if not entirely written/revised before the Core Rules/Bestiary were finalized, doesn't seem to suggest specific skeleton variants, so I just picked a variety for each fight. There's a different non-skeletal creature later that's a specific solo fight that also has variant choices in the Bestiary, and interestingly that one does have the choice printed.


It is like how it is with the ghost - you choose one or more abilities that fit the theme of your skeletons when you drop the skeleton into the game.


Yeah, I love the possibilities offered by this, but the formatting needs clarity to avoid unintended over/underpowering.
Without explicitly stating when GM is supposed to add "choice of variant ability", it's not clear what is the case for given statblock.
Does statblock with generic ability have that IN ADDITION to normal choice, or is that simply the designer's designation of the normal choice?
Does a statblock with no variant abilities mean the GM is supposed to add one, or is it one of the few without variant abilities? (which only "most" have)
Since some can have multiple variant abilities, it seems simplest to standardize on explicitly stating if statblock needs a variant ability added (and how many).

That avoids the Zombie Rot/Plague-Ridden situation. A "unique ability" name shouldn't be needed to avoid implication* that a statblock's mention of generic variant ability might be "designation" of normal variant ability choice, rather than additional fixed ability "atop" free choice of variant ability. Plague Zombie should just specify it has Plague-Ridden ATOP choice of 1 variant ability, with Plague-Ridden rules being self-sufficient rather than referencing "unique ability" Zombie Rot. When a statblock (like of specific creature, in adventure) *IS* designating the choice of 1 variant ability, it can just state that ability name and NOT indicate any further choice of ability, thus usable as-is.

* I am assuming that is the intention, despite generic Plague-Ridden being identical to Zombie Rot which it references, both specifying victim rises as same type as attacker.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Rules Discussion / Skeleton [and Zombie] abilities baseline for Bestiary entries All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Discussion