Formulae known, and crafting Scrolls and Wands

[james014Aura]

Am I correct in understanding that, to craft a Wand or Scroll of a spell at a certain level, I need a formula for that specific spell at that specific level? Not just Wand of Fireball formula for ANY fireball level or Wand of Level 7 Spell formula, but specifically Wand of Fireball 7th?

[Ravingdork]

That may well be.

I'll look into it and get back to you if I find anything.

[Blave]

I had the same question during playtest and I don't think it was ever answered.

The way I see it, the magic item list starting on page 536 lists all magic items in the game. I'd go by that list. So you need the formula for the item "Scroll of 1st-level spell" to craft a scroll of ANY first level spell.

Same for heightening. To craft a 5th level fireball scroll, you'd need the formula for "Scroll of 5th-level spell". But you could also craft a scroll of Black Tentacles with the same formula.

That seems to make the most sense without crafting becoming a total headache. I'll personally run it this way until proven otherwise.

[Wheldrake]

This appears to apply:

CRB p293 wrote:

Items with Multiple Types

If an item has multiple types of different levels, each
type has its own formula, and you need the formula for
the specific type of item you want to Craft.

The possibility of creating 3rd, 4th and 5th-level wands of fireball appears to correspond to this rule. So this would support the idea that you need individual formulae for wands of each level of a given spell.

I'm not sure why scrolls would be different.

Edit: although it seems wierd and counterintuitive to say that you need a formula to scribe a scroll, and even worse a formula for each level of each spell, before you can scribe it.

[ofMars]

wait, the formula for a scroll is a separate thing from the spell itself? I was under the impression that if you knew the spell and had the magical crafting feat, that's all you needed.

[thenobledrake]

Formulas are required for crafting so that there is a check in place, other than never letting the character have the time or the money, that informs the player's expectation about what they can or can't craft.

This way, players will take to conversation with their GM as their character goes looking for formulae, whereas prior ways of handling this topic resulted in players expecting that their GM would be fine with them crafting any item that was possible according to the rules.

[Wheldrake]

IMHO, it seems logical that scrolls should be an exception to the required formula rule. Knowing the spell and being a spellcaster of the right tradition should be sufficient for crafting scrolls.

However, as things stand, I have been able to find no exception pertaining to scrolls, meaning that they follow the general rule for crafting. As consumables, you can craft them in batches of four, and you need a separate formula for each spell and for each possible level of that spell that you want to craft. That's the RAW, as near as I can determine.

It seems appropriate for wands & potions, but I don't think scrolls ought to work that way. Perhaps there will be more info (errata, really) in an as-yet-unpublished book.

[thenobledrake]

Wheldrake wrote:

IMHO, it seems logical that scrolls should be an exception to the required formula rule. Knowing the spell and being a spellcaster of the right tradition should be sufficient for crafting scrolls.

However, as things stand, I have been able to find no exception pertaining to scrolls, meaning that they follow the general rule for crafting. As consumables, you can craft them in batches of four, and you need a separate formula for each spell and for each possible level of that spell that you want to craft. That's the RAW, as near as I can determine.

It seems appropriate for wands & potions, but I don't think scrolls ought to work that way. Perhaps there will be more info (errata, really) in an as-yet-unpublished book.

If scrolls should be an exception such that you don't need a different formula to make different levels of the same spell...

should that only apply to prepared spell casters, or should spontaneous casters be able to craft a spell scroll at a different level than they know and can cast a spell too? Example: a sorcerer knows heal as a 1st level spell, does not have it selected as a signature spell, and wants to craft a 5th-level spell scroll of it - should that be good to go if they can craft a spell scroll of heal at all, or a specific separate formula should be needed as per RAW?