Well it allows you to concentrate on things while raging, so as a multiclass option it might work (eg: Wizard/Dreadnought into Eldritch Knight). I don't know about actually casting spells, but continuing spells while raging might have some use?
Honestly it doesn't look like a good archetype to me.
Hey I was really liking the idea of Barbarian Dreadnought but it seems like you give up a lot...Let's run through a checklist:
A dreadnought can enter a dispassionate killing spree as a free action, granting her additional combat prowess. The dreadnought gains only half the usual bonuses from her rage but takes no penalty to her AC...No penalty to AC? Sign me up, brother! --Getting your ass handed to you because your armor-class is trash is the primary mechanism of early barbarian retirement. This is only worse than stock rage if your AC being repeatedly and incessantly targeted is not your primary vulnerability to the enemy (and it generally is with barbarians).
can use all her normal skills and effects that require concentrationIn other words, spellcasting, not to mention other supernatural abilities you may possess requiring concentration.
and is not fatigued when her rage ends.This takes all the sting out of being Calm'ed, or voluntarily ending rage early to conserve rage-rounds.
The dreadnought cannot enter a rage for 1 minute after she ends her rageWhile combats will occasionally string together back-to-back, then primarily is just an impediment to "rage-cycling" builds.
and she cannot charge or run while under the effects of her rage.
This will preclude a charge-utilizing build, but won't otherwise inconvenience most barbarians.
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Well it allows you to concentrate on things while raging, so as a multiclass option it might work (eg: Wizard/Dreadnought into Eldritch Knight)The multiclass combo that screams "Gimme!" to me is Warpriest (with a barbarian level granting a free-action stackable buff, and class access to Acrobatics and Perception). Dip barb at 1st + Extra Rage, and jump ship.
Honestly it doesn't look like a good archetype to me.
I think it's very nice archetype which offers tons of flexibility to the otherwise meathead-stereotype-bound martial. It eliminates all of the existing core baggage of rage (aside from alignment) while preserving access to rage-bolstering feats such as Amplified Rage, and to the Furious enhancement (the fastest path to a pseudo +3 weapon).
and she cannot charge or run while under the effects of her rage.This will preclude a charge-utilizing build, but won't otherwise inconvenience most barbarians.
No Charge means no pounce, which means you will be lightyears behind other Barbarians come 10th level. Which makes the archetype almost unusuable for a single class build, especially since Urban Barbarian (and probably Savage Technologist) has most of the benefits.
It's interesting for multiclassing/dipping with a Warpriest or Magus, but otherwise, it sacrifices a ridiculous amount for what mostly boils down to flavor.
No Charge means no pounce, which means you will be lightyears behind other Barbarians come 10th level.and she cannot charge or run while under the effects of her rage.This will preclude a charge-utilizing build, but won't otherwise inconvenience most barbarians.
I specifically referred to this in the part quoted. Face-chewer barbs who go in with a crap-ton of natural-attacks will have no use for the archetype. Barbs who get two massive 2hPA attacks with manufactured weaponry at BAB10 can still get two via move & hit + Cleave. Obviously suboptimal in a game in which a lazy GM's fight design consists of single big monsters rather than horde encounters.
Be that as it may, a standard charging rager's AC will be -4 that of a non-charging Dreadnought's. If this is of no concern to the player, then it could be argued that the GM isn't sufficiently challenging his PC.
The multiclass combo that screams "Gimme!" to me is Warpriest (with a barbarian level granting a free-action stackable buff, and class access to Acrobatics and Perception). Dip barb at 1st + Extra Rage, and jump ship.Which makes the archetype almost unusuable for a single class build, especially since Urban Barbarian (and probably Savage Technologist) has most of the benefits. It's interesting for multiclassing/dipping with a Warpriest or Magus, but otherwise, it sacrifices a ridiculous amount for what mostly boils down to flavor.
I can envision a real beatstick of a Divine Commander warpriest built over two levels of Dreadnought: He'll pick up Extra Rage, Amplified Rage, Boon Companion, and fight with Furious weaponry. The PC casts up to two spells and rages in round 1, sharing Str+6/Con+6/Will+1 with his mount. Next round, he keeps right on casting, as needed, because he can.
For funsies, we'd make him a sod-offing dwarf (adopted by half-orcs) with a 5 charisma who laughs off any need for that attribute all while wearing the heaviest armor imaginable and zeroing out its ACP when mounted. Dreadnaught, indeed. He'll have a raging Con of at least 22 with a measly 5 point-buy tossed at the stat, not counting belt or level bumps.
So main benefit seems to be multi classing friendliness... probs not what I am looking for then... thanks
As Derklord suggested, if you want to pounce, don't take it.
As I suggested, if you want AC and spellcasting* with your barbarian, consider it.
(*You don't need to multiclass, as any reasonably-leveled character can easily afford UMD item-casting.)
I specifically referred to this in the part quoted.
Except you make it sound like it's a specific build, while it's actually the de facto default. For the overwhelming majority of Barbarian builds, Dreadnought is an enormous downgrade.
Be that as it may, a standard charging rager's AC will be -4 that of a non-charging Dreadnought's.
With the difference that the pounced enemy is dead, while the Dreadbought spends a time in full-attack range of the enemy. If this is of no concern to the player, then it could be argued that the GM isn't sufficiently challenging his PC.
It's not like that Barbarians have particular problems with "horde encounters" thanks to CaGM+Combat Expertise+Dazing Assault.
So main benefit seems to be multi classing friendliness... probs not what I am looking for then... thanks
I can't see a single mono-class build where you didn't just amputate your own knee by taking the archetype. Ranged builds want Primal Hunter, Urban Barbarian, or Savage Technologist, and everything else wants to pounce, or even just charge at lowish levels. If you want to have more AC, take Urban Barbarian or Savage Technologist instead. If you want a non-rage-flavored rage, I'd look at Geminate Invoker before picking Dreadnought.
I feel like telling Slim Jim that he's wrong for liking this smacks a little of BADWRONGFUN! It's not one i'm likely to pick, but prefer to play with a reach weapon and Combat Reflexes then losing the ability to charge isn't that big a deal.
I still don't think it's a good archetype, but just because I can't see something doesn't mean it's not there.
Be that as it may, a standard charging rager's AC will be -4 that of a non-charging Dreadnought's.With the difference that the pounced enemy is dead, while the Dreadbought spends a time in full-attack range of the enemy. If this is of no concern to the player, then it could be argued that the GM isn't sufficiently challenging his PC.
It's not like that Barbarians have particular problems with "horde encounters" thanks to CaGM+Combat Expertise+Dazing Assault.
That's three feats, plus two rage-powers for acquiring Pounce. --It's a significant investment not fully on-line until 12th (and not online at all until 10th), and has to be encounter-tuned perfectly, or you'll find yourself adjacent to to some still-alive and very annoyed opponents who'll be +4 to hit you while you're -5 to hit them.
When the player has reasonable metagame expectations of opponent CR (such in an AP), then Pounce may very well be the greatest martial sauce ever. But you certainly wouldn't want to stumble down the well front-burnering that tactic.
In the 1st- through 9th-level game, the Dreadnaught is a good archetype, even when straight-classed or mostly straight-classed. The PC can dip a single level of fighter, or take Heavy Armor Prof, and be AC +3 full-time over the generic rager. His outlook is more like a fighter's than a barbarian's while enjoying all of the latter's rage-required goodie access. At 10th, if you want pounce, then you chuck a bag of gold at the retraining rules after you've gotten your mileage out of the defense-oriented archetype.
I feel like telling Slim Jim that he's wrong for liking this smacks a little of BADWRONGFUN!
Oh this is nuthin'. For real four-star entertainment, you gotta watch Derk rip into me for not loathing chained rogues.
I feel like telling Slim Jim that he's wrong for liking this smacks a little of BADWRONGFUN!
Where did I do that? Seriously, where did I adress Slim Jim's preferences?
If people don't understand the difference between "your claim is wrong" and "your preference is wrong", that's not my problem.I still don't think it's a good archetype, but just because I can't see something doesn't mean it's not there.
Well, I'm more of a scientific mind. Unless someone shows a build where the archetype isn't crap (one a monoclass build), I feel justified in calling it that.
Don't forget the 3 round cast time on lesser restore if you are planning this.