Is there anything in the rules preventing characters untrained in certain weapons to still use them without penalty for trips, disarms and shoves?
A 1st level wizard with 16 dex and trained athletics can use a whip for it's reach and finesse and normally trip/disarm with it even if he isn't trained?
This would make for a good FAQ question, since it's not especially spelled out anywhere that I'm aware of.
IMO, you would probably use the worse of the two proficiencies.
Said Wizard might have been trained in CQC with his bare hands, but probably can't do so effectively with a whip in his hand.
Of course, a Human Wizard who took the unconventional weaponry ancestry feat could probably be trained in both and be effective at it.
This would make for a good FAQ question, since it's not especially spelled out anywhere that I'm aware of.
IMO, you would probably use the worse of the two proficiencies.
Said Wizard might have been trained in CQC with his bare hands, but probably can't do so effectively with a whip in his hand.
Of course, a Human Wizard who took the unconventional weaponry ancestry feat could probably be trained in both and be effective at it.
why would unconventional weaponry give you whip training? You could say that in your village everybody had whips, but that is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
RAW, those actions do not reference your weapon proficiency + can be done via the weapon trait which does not reference weapon proficiency.
No proficiency involved (other than in Athletics) so you're good to go.
Awkward. Feels a bit weaselly, though since you do have to be good at Athletics and do have to be strong and/or dexterous to succeed, it's not like you aren't a proficient (or lucky) person. I could probably snag somebody's feet with a rope better than I could lash them for any significant damage, so it's not unrealistic. Same if I charge somebody with a maul in front of me. Much easier to Shove than swing & connect.
(Now feeling martially inept...)
I wouldn't necessarily recommend being a Step away from a significant threat, Sir Wizard.
RAW, those actions do not reference your weapon proficiency + can be done via the weapon trait which does not reference weapon proficiency.
No proficiency involved (other than in Athletics) so you're good to go.Awkward. Feels a bit weaselly, though since you do have to be good at Athletics and do have to be strong and/or dexterous to succeed, it's not like you aren't a proficient (or lucky) person. I could probably snag somebody's feet with a rope better than I could lash them for any significant damage, so it's not unrealistic. Same if I charge somebody with a maul in front of me. Much easier to Shove than swing & connect.
(Now feeling martially inept...)I wouldn't necessarily recommend being a Step away from a significant threat, Sir Wizard.
yeah, it is kinda weird...
I was just thinking is there anything better for me to hold than a shield. Also I can scale athletics much better than any other attack that I have, so that can be a viable option in combat for my 3rd action.
I honestly don't see any rules vagueness about this, when using Disarm/Shove/Trip/Grapple you use Athletics proficiency, period.
That means it may be better than melee attack proficiency in that weapon, which may even be zero.
Conversely if you're not Trained in Athletics, when making such "maneuvers" with weapon
you use the lower proficiency even if zero, even if you are highly trained in weapons as melee attack.
A maneuver trait weapon is a tool for Athletics skill when it is being used that way, you don't need to know any melee attack stuff.
Same as if a weapon trait allowed using item bonus or other weapon features like reach with other skill checks, like Climb.