Forced into small space

[richard develyn]

What happens when two creatures are forced into the same space, as in for example two medium sized creatures falling into a 5'square pit?

Richard

[richard develyn]

I guess there’s still no real answer to this.

I remember asking this about PF1 years ago where we had someone fall into a 10’sq pit holding a tiger (a large animal).

What’s supposed to happen? I asked.

Don’t let it happen - seemed to be the answer.

That cannot be an answer. It is, IMO, fundamental to an RPG that anything that we can sensibly imagine happening in our fantasy world should be allowed to happen in that fantasy world. This open-endedness is what separates an RPG from a board game.

Not allowing two creatures to occupy the same space is a convenience for combat, in much the same way that lack of facing is a convenience for combat, but neither of these things should be allowed to subvert the open-ended nature of adventuring in the fantasy world. If two unarmoured characters want to have a cuddle in the middle of combat they should be allowed to do so. If someone wants to wait until someone’s back is turned before they do something then they should be allowed to do so. These are reasonable things for PCs to ask to do in an open-ended game. It would be nice if PF2 had something to say on these two things rather than leave it to house rules.

Richard

[Garretmander]

GM discretion is the rule you want here.

I'd say: make them clumsy 1-2 and/or enfeebled 1-2 depending on the size of the space.

[The ShadowShackleton]

At some point in the core Rulebook it says that if two characters are forced to occupy the same space one of them falls prone. Not sure I can remember where I read that or even remember it fully.

[Bashkinator]

PF2e CRB, p.474 wrote:

If two creatures end up in the same square by accident, the GM determines which one is forced out of the square (or whether one falls prone).

and

PF2e CRB, p.475 wrote:

A prone creature can’t stand up while someone else occupies its space, but it can Crawl to a space where it’s able to stand, or it can attempt to Shove the other creature out of the way.

[richard develyn]

Excellent, thank you.

I imagine the smaller one would be prone (i.e. you fall into a 10' sq pit with a tiger in), but if they're both the same size I see no reason why they shouldn't both be prone.

Cheers

Richard