Greetings. Long time Pathfinder1 (P1) Player with my friend. We are learning the rules by playing but stopping quite a bit. I am dedicating my time to reading the CRB.
I ran right into my old P1 habits which wont work.
So >> Rogue Surprise attack. In P1 this ability was for anyone who acted before another. If they got an attack the target (if he had not acted in the round yet) was flat footed.
Now in P2 this is ONLY a Rogue ability, right?
Correct. Also note the wording for the ability - it only works if the Rogue rolls Stealth or Deception for initiative. If they roll Perception or some other skill, they don't get Surprise Attack.
Correct. Also note the wording for the ability - it only works if the Rogue rolls Stealth or Deception for initiative. If they roll Perception or some other skill, they don't get Surprise Attack.
Which is odd because by the normal rules for Avoid Notice (p479) if you are rolling stealth for initiative and you beat their perception for initiative then the enemies don't notice you at the start of combat. Which I assume would mean you are unnoticed which means they are flat footed to you anyways.
Which is odd because by the normal rules for Avoid Notice (p479) if you are rolling stealth for initiative and you beat their perception for initiative then the enemies don't notice you at the start of combat. Which I assume would mean you are unnoticed which means they are flat footed to you anyways.
Nope, you are doing two things with avoid notice.
"If you’re Avoiding Notice at the start of an encounter, you usually roll a Stealth check instead of a Perception check both to determine your initiative and to see if the enemies notice you (based on their Perception DCs, as normal for Sneak, regardless of their initiative check results)."
So what you are doing when you are rolling stealth is determining both your place in the initiative and seeing if they notice you at all.
Amusingly this can result in a possible case where they roll high on initiative but you still beat their perception DC they will generally be relegated to ready or seek actions if hostile elements are around. This situation is either really good for you, or really bad for you. Generally you still want to get both.
It can also result in a situation where you roll higher than them in initiative but fail to beat their perception DC and still get your flat footed bonus.
Which is odd because by the normal rules for Avoid Notice (p479) if you are rolling stealth for initiative and you beat their perception for initiative then the enemies don't notice you at the start of combat. Which I assume would mean you are unnoticed which means they are flat footed to you anyways.Nope, you are doing two things with avoid notice.
"If you’re Avoiding Notice at the start of an encounter, you usually roll a Stealth check instead of a Perception check both to determine your initiative and to see if the enemies notice you (based on their Perception DCs, as normal for Sneak, regardless of their initiative check results)."
So what you are doing when you are rolling stealth is determining both your place in the initiative and seeing if they notice you at all.
Amusingly this can result in a possible case where they roll high on initiative but you still beat their perception DC they will generally be relegated to ready or seek actions if hostile elements are around. This situation is either really good for you, or really bad for you. Generally you still want to get both.
It can also result in a situation where you roll higher than them in initiative but fail to beat their perception DC and still get your flat footed bonus.
Oh damn... that's confusing. I'm starting to realize I am never going to be able to sell my 5e friends on PF2.
Oh damn... that's confusing. I'm starting to realize I am never going to be able to sell my 5e friends on PF2.
Nah, it just sounds more complex than it is. Pathfinder 2e is actually easier to teach to first time players than 5e imo because of system cohesion and clear terminology. But, it takes more effort to learn as a gm.
When it comes to this it ends up being simpler in action than how it sounds when described.
Roll stealth vs perception.
Check stealth roll against perception DC of creature (+10)
Note initiative and who is hidden from sight mentally and tell each player as their turn comes up.
In action this is actually much simpler to handle than surprise is in 5e which has a whole bunch of possible scenarios thanks to surprise immunity and how the surprise condition/effect applies to reactions and initiative order.
Put it this way, I taught a person how to play PF2e playtest on the fly in one evening, a person who thought that 5e was too mechanically complex and he was praising it how all the systems seemed to interact with each other and were easy to understand.
What the players face and what the GM faces are very different things :)