Fatal weapon trait vs. a creature immune to critical hits.


Rules Discussion


Question: When attacking with a weapon with the Fatal trait and you would normally critically succeed on the attack but the creature is immune to critical hits, would you still get to use the increased damage die on the attack?

I was reading the Immunity section of Chapter 9:

Core Rulebook page 451 wrote:
Immunity to critical hits works a little differently. When a creature immune to critical hits is critically hit by a Strike or other attack that deals damage, it takes normal damage instead of double damage. This does not make it immune to any other critical success effects of other actions that have the attack trait (such as Grapple and Shove).


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Gimble, The Storyteller wrote:

Question: When attacking with a weapon with the Fatal trait and you would normally critically succeed on the attack but the creature is immune to critical hits, would you still get to use the increased damage die on the attack?

I was reading the Immunity section of Chapter 9:

Core Rulebook page 451 wrote:
Immunity to critical hits works a little differently. When a creature immune to critical hits is critically hit by a Strike or other attack that deals damage, it takes normal damage instead of double damage. This does not make it immune to any other critical success effects of other actions that have the attack trait (such as Grapple and Shove).

You critically succeeded on the roll, but you cannot crit the creature. So I do not believe you get the Fatal effect.


My first instinct was as yours but the rule says "it takes normal damage instead of double damage. This does not make it immune to any other critical success effects of other actions that have the attack trait (such as Grapple and Shove).

Also, in the critical specialization effects under bow it specifically mentions oozes and elementals.

Critical Specialization Bow (page284) wrote:
. . . The creature doesn't become stuck if it is incorporeal, is liquid ( like a water elemental or some oozes, or could otherwise escape without effort.

The truth is I'm on the fence about this issue. The only thing that's clear is the immunity keeps the damage from doubling , but doesn't say whether or not the other effects that come with a critical success are still in effect from a Strike.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Core Rulebook page 451 wrote:
Immunity to critical hits works a little differently. When a creature immune to critical hits is critically hit by a Strike or other attack that deals damage, it takes normal damage instead of double damage. This does not make it immune to any other critical success effects of other actions that have the attack trait (such as Grapple and Shove).

I would think it would ignore all of the critical effects of the strike action. So that would include the effects from Fatal. It makes exceptions for non-damage critical effects from non-damage actions.

Also, RAI I would read that as preventing any increased physical damage due to critical effects. Precision damage, Deadly trait, other such things like that.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

In January 2023 this has officially been answered by CRB Clarification, see https://paizo.com/pathfinder/faq> Pathfinder Core Rulebook Clarifications (4th Printing):

Quote:

Page 451 (Clarification): How do extra critical effects work on a creature immune to critical hits?

Immunity to critical hits reads “When a creature immune to critical hits is critically hit by a Strike or other attack that deals damage, it takes normal damage instead of double damage.” This means what it says: The attack deals normal damage instead of double damage. Other effects specific to a critical hit still occur, such as critical specialization effects and extra damage dice from traits like deadly and fatal. You also still have the option to use abilities that trigger on critical hits, like the vorpal rune’s reaction (though many creatures immune to crits also don’t need heads to live, lucky devils). Your GM can still say no to extremely strange consequences of this rule on a case-by-case basis.

[italics added]

PS: Please forgive me the thread necromancy, but since it was still one of the top results when searching for Immunity against Crit vs. Critical Effects, I thought it was useful to have the answer finally here, as well.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Rules Discussion / Fatal weapon trait vs. a creature immune to critical hits. All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.