Potential House Rule Feedback: Sneak Attack with Any Weapon


Homebrew and House Rules


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Current rule:

When your enemy can’t properly defend itself, you take advantage to deal extra damage. If you Strike a creature that has the flat-footed condition (page 620) with an agile or finesse melee weapon, an agile or finesse unarmed attack, or a ranged weapon attack, you deal an extra 1d6 precision damage. For a ranged attack with a thrown melee weapon, that weapon must also be agile or finesse.

As your rogue level increases, so does the number of damage dice for your sneak attack. Increase the number of dice by one at 5th, 11th, and 17th levels.

Proposed addition to rule:

If you Strike with a weapon that is neither an agile or finesse weapon, all sneak attack dice are reduced to d4s.

Reason:

I liked sneak attacking in PF1 with big weapons, it was fun. I also abhor being told what kind of weapons a class should use, even if they seek proficiency in other kinds of weapons than baseline.

Expected impact:

Many rogues will see the reduction of dice and the feats required to obtain different weapons, and just decide to stick with their agile weapons.

Ruffian rogues still get better dice with simple weapons, and can still apply their crit effect if they do decide to pursue martial weapons at the cost of sneak attack die size.

Rogues of different races will be able to sneak attack with various racial weapons.

Everyone taking the Rogue dedication will be able to use the sneak attack feature without changing their prior weapon of choice.

Overall increase in Rogue class's strength.

Overall increase in Rogue Dedication strength.

Main Questions:

Just how much stronger would this change make sneak attacks?

If it too greatly encourages using non-agile weapons, what modifications to this rule would help?


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Like you, I hate the "X class must you Y weapons." feel of things. I thought the whole point of featified classes was to enable customization. Tying class features to certain weapons is too restrictive for my tastes, unless there's a strong reason for it. I'm not super well versed in the new rules, but I'll try some basic running of the numbers.

At first level with standard weapons. I'm ignoring the static bonuses from attributes, feats and the like, because they should equal out, and the critical specializations and weapon traits, because those are more complicated to evaluate. Spiked chain is the only d8 weapon I found with finesse or agile.

Dagger: d4 +d6 is 2-10, ave 6
Shortsword: d6 + d6 is 2-12 ave 7
Spiked Chain: d8 + d6 is 2-14, ave 8
Longsword: d8 + d4 is 2-12 ave 7
Falchion: d10 + d4 is 2-14, ave 8
Greataxe: d12 + d4 is 2-16, ave 9

And at 5th level and a standard Striking rune.

Dagger: 2d4 + 2d6 sneak is 4-20, ave 12
Shortsword: 2d6 + 2d6 sneak is 4-24, ave 14
Spiked Chain: 2d8 + 2d6 sneak is 4-28, ave 16
Longsword: 2d8 + 2d4 sneak is 4-24, ave 14
Falchion: 2d10 + 2d4 sneak is 4-28, ave 16
Greataxe: 2d12 + 2d4 sneak is 4-32, ave 18

At 12th level with a greater striking rune.

Dagger: 3d4 + 3d6 sneak is 6-30, ave 18
Shortsword: 3d6 + 3d6 sneak is 6-36, ave 21
Spiked Chain: 3d8 + 3d6 sneak is 6-42, ave 24
Longsword: 3d8 + 3d4 sneak is 6-36, ave 21
Falchion: 3d10 + 3d4 sneak is 6-42, ave 24
Greataxe: 3d12 + 3d4 sneak is 6-48, ave 27

And at 17th with major striking.

Dagger: 4d4 + 4d6 sneak is 8-40, ave 24
Shortsword: 4d6 + 4d6 sneak is 8-48, ave 28
Spiked Chain: 4d8 + 4d6 sneak is 8-56, ave 32
Longsword: 4d8 + 4d4 sneak is 8-48, ave 28
Falchion: 4d10 + 4d4 sneak is 8-56, ave 32
Greataxe: 4d12 + 4d4 sneak is 8-64, ave 36

So a d8 weapon without agile or finesse is the same as a d6 one with, and a d10 weapon does as much damage as a spike chain and the d12 weapons are a bit ahead. Using a reach weapon could make this particularly nasty. Falling behind with striking runes will reduce and eventually reverse the advantage d12 weapons have.


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The thing to really consider how much of a buff it is when you don't sneak attack

The downside to rogues is that when you catch something that can't be flatfooted or is immune to precision damage you have to deal with having an inferior weapon. Not so with your change,it lets them have their cake and eat it.

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