After reading some threads about Class DC confusion I have wondered what it is even used for now.
- casters cast spells with their key ability but have a seperate prof. progression for casting.
- casters use their casting progression even for powers. (right?)
- Most other classes that use powers DON'T use their key ability. Paladins use CHA, Monks (probably) use WIS.
- Martials might attack with thier key ability. But that is dictated by the weapon, not the key ability.
Class DC had some use in the PT, when it was used for dying saving throws for example. But now using Class DC for some action seems more the exception than the rule.
I have the feeling that every class having a class DC is a bit confusing since so few abilities use it now. :|
Am I overlooking something?
EDIT: Okay, class DC is mostly used by non-power effects. Mostly riders on attacks and crit. effects.
Could you give me an example?
Could you give me an example?
Umm, an example of what exactly?
Casters don't have a Class DC, they use their Spell DC. The Class DC is used for class abilities of non-casters that require targets to make a saving throw.
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So like a monk's stunning fist maybe?
Barbarian dragon instinct breath weapon?
Where Class DC shows up.
That was my problem. XD I could find many places where it didn't show up.
I don't have the final books, so my post was more of a question since I was confused.So, class DC is used for stuff that isn't a spell or a power (focus spell) - so effects that are added to an attack. Stunning Fist for example.
Casters don't have a Class DC, they use their Spell DC. The Class DC is used for class abilities of non-casters that require targets to make a saving throw.
Doesn't every class have a class DC? Isn't that the point that each class has a key ability?
Or do you use your primary class's key ability also for a class DC of a multiclass archetype? So if I'm a sorcerer, I don't have a class DC but if I MC into alchemist the alchemist class DC is based on my CHA?
Alchemists, Barbarians, Monks, Rogues, and Rangers all have feats that use their class DC, and that's just off the top of my head.
So spell DC scales with proficiency, right?
Will class DC? Otherwise, Stunning Fist will be a joke again, compared to scaling power in defenses.
Thanks everyone.
So one question remains for me: Do I use the key ability of my primary class for the class DC of multiclass archetypes?
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The multiclass.Thanks everyone.
So one question remains for me: Do I use the key ability of my primary class for the class DC of multiclass archetypes?
Most specifically, the multi-class dedication feat will tell you what to use. That said, it appears to pretty much always be the multi-class DC.
Most specifically, the multi-class dedication feat will tell you what to use. That said, it appears to pretty much always be the multi-class DC.The multiclass.Thanks everyone.
So one question remains for me: Do I use the key ability of my primary class for the class DC of multiclass archetypes?
I read the dedications in the "All Multiclass Archetypes" and they don't answer that. Their text is "You become trained in XXX class DC".
So only the prof. level is defined in the dedications but not the ability. As far as I understand the rules, only your primary class gives you a key ability.So the question is, if I'm a barbarian MCing into alchemist, do I use STR for both the barbarian class DC and the alchemist class DC? Or INT for the alchemist DC even rhough it's not my key ability?
I do think the language of Class Difficulty Class is awkward and not very intuitive. Especially because it is only affected by level and attribute, not actually anything related to class. I don't really see the value in having it exist as a number outside of just giving every attribute its own base DC value that could be tied to bonus and level and then just have abilities call out which attribute DC to use.
Too late to edit, put more simply:
Why is this not just a default character DC (that is the same for all classes), and when using specific powers, you just add the relevant attribute bonus, as specified in the power that calls for it?
Too late to edit, put more simply:
Why is this not just a default character DC (that is the same for all classes), and when using specific powers, you just add the relevant attribute bonus, as specified in the power that calls for it?
Because then you would do on-the-fly character stat generation, which isn't wanted. The same reason, you write down the values of all your weapon attacks and not only your proficiency value for weapons and add DEX or STR on the fly.
Because then you would do on-the-fly character stat generation, which isn't wanted. The same reason, you write down the values of all your weapon attacks and not only your proficiency value for weapons and add DEX or STR on the fly.Too late to edit, put more simply:
Why is this not just a default character DC (that is the same for all classes), and when using specific powers, you just add the relevant attribute bonus, as specified in the power that calls for it?
right, but you could just have a space for your character DC with each attribute listed with the attribute?
The larger point remains that the Class DC has nothing to do with class, except an arbitrary limitation on what attribute different abilities can utilize, because each class has an assigned attribute.
It all scales with level. Class DC is the target number for all class abilities, focus powers, spells, etc... across the board. So as you level, your initial low-level abilities stay relevant and don't end up completely useless.
Among others, the Champion apparently does not use Class DC for focus spells -- they calculate the save DC from Cha instead.
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Yeah, it would be clearer if the name was "Ability DC" or something like that, since it's used for special abilities that are NOT spells. The naming could be better for sure, it has nothing to do with class itself. :)