Banner Stacking


Advice


I'm not sure how worth it would be, but looking through various banners and flags, I was wondering a few questions about the Banner of the Scarlet Rose and the Banner of Ancient Kings:

First, can they be wielded together? The Banner of the Scarlet Rose:
https://www.aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Banner%20of%20th e%20Scarlet%20Rose

"This flag bears an image of a red rose on a silvery field. Made for the Scarlet Rose’s standard-bearers, these flags offer protection to the wielder and inspiration to her allies. To grant any benefit, a banner of the Scarlet Rose must be held firmly in one hand by a woman."

Banner of Ancient Kings:
https://aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Banner%20of%20the%20 Ancient%20Kings

"This tattered white canvas banner looks like an old piece of sailcloth, or perhaps a winding shroud—a 4-foot-by-6-foot rectangle with loops that can fit over a spear haft or pole running up one side. If mounted on a longspear or pole at least 8 feet in length, the banner shifts in appearance to match the heraldry or coat of arms of the person who attached it."

"As long as the longspear or pole to which the banner is attached is firmly wielded in two hands..."

Flying multiple flags together-- especially since the latter would shift to fit the heraldry that is appropriate to the wielder, and therefore functionally complementary to the former-- on a single staff is, of course, a long-standing tradition. Which flag goes above which depends on many things like seniority, etc., so it seems like at the very least, the Banner of Ancient Kings could be attached to the pole upon which the Banner of the Scarlet Rose is flying, as long as it's 8' long.

The only exception I can think of is the two hands / one hand thing, but being firmly held in two hands doesn't make it not firmly held in one of them. Is this valid, or does this violate some reductive rules principles?

Which brings me to question two. What is the Banner of the Scarlet Rose, specifically, and if it's just the banner, are there rules on what it can be attached to?

The description of the Banner of the Scarlet Rose is just concerned with the banner proper. The picture by it in my copy of the Adventure Guide shows it with a spear-like spar off the finial, or well really, just below what looks like a crudely cut-off pole or even a quarterstaff. But the description does say that the _banner_ has to be held.

I think by the pic, it's clear that it doesn't mean that the BotSR isn't just waved around in the character's hand around the border. But since the text doesn't describe, could it be flown off a longspear, too?

Which leads to the last question. I'm pretty sure I'm on solid ground here, but much like an amulet of natural armor, actual natural armor, and a suit of enchanted plate would stack all four types of AC, the sentence "This benefit does not apply to spells that grant competence bonuses, nor does it stack with other item effects that increase competence bonuses," does not seem, to me, to conflict with the Banner of Ancient Kings' "A bard who carries a longspear or pole to which a banner of the ancient kings has been attached is treated as four levels higher than his actual bard level for the purposes of determining the bonuses granted by his inspire courage bardic performance ability."

Am I right on that? Even if you can't wield both on the same pole, if you've got a woman from that four-armed species in the interplanetary book, presumably you could have her wielding both. Presumably then, since the Ancient Kings bumps her level by 4 and the Scarlet Rose is concerned with the competence bonus itself, they would stack.

I'm aware that it's 36,000 gp and may leave you only capable of combat with Improved Unarmed Strike, but it _would_ still leave our bard capable of casting via free action switching between holding a pole in one hand or two without losing the shield bonus, but I'm honestly more struck by the visual of the Scarlet Rose banner below a longspear's point, followed by some complimentary heraldry-- perhaps the facial scar pattern of the woman bearing it with some runic extrapolation?

Silver Crusade

Two levels of alchemist for vestigial limb and a feat for the extra discovery gets your arms back without needing a particular race. Also a very intimidating mini to place on the table.

There are more ways to increase the bonus further, but at lvl 7 or 8 a +4 from inspire courage and +2 from the Flagbearer feat and BoAK you have moved your martial team members up three to four levels in damage.

My goal would be to find a way to buff the spellcasters next. Hexes are a good way to improve the rate of more valuable top level spells succeeding.


Oli Ironbar wrote:

Two levels of alchemist for vestigial limb and a feat for the extra discovery gets your arms back without needing a particular race. Also a very intimidating mini to place on the table.

There are more ways to increase the bonus further, but at lvl 7 or 8 a +4 from inspire courage and +2 from the Flagbearer feat and BoAK you have moved your martial team members up three to four levels in damage.

My goal would be to find a way to buff the spellcasters next. Hexes are a good way to improve the rate of more valuable top level spells succeeding.

Heh. Fair enough; but of course if I don't have to do anything other than strap them to the same pole (and beg my team to make sure no one with a sunder-ish bent gets close), that's more room for other things, or taking, indeed, Witch or Shaman levels.

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