Idea / ranting for what basically amounts to a magical class overhaul.

[Warriorking9001]

I had recently been thinking about Vancian casting because of PF2 coming out and I realized just WHY I had such a distaste for it, because some classes it makes sense, and some classes it makes absolutely none. Hence I got the irresistible urge to throw some vague ideas up to brainstorm.

Alchemist: Basically the same as before, vancian works perfect for them.
Wizard: Retains most of their vancian abilities, but gain a small amount of extra abilities that they can reshape spells into (maybe instead of bonus feats they gain like 4 talents across their career that they can spontaneously turn spell slots into.
Magus: takes Reduced Casting as per Kensei, but rather than gaining weapon abilities they gain a small number of at will talents to use spell combat with in order to represent their one-note focus on Combat magic.
Cleric: Similar to Wizard's changes, gaining a few small abilities through their domain that they can use to reshape prepared spell slots.
Sorcerer: Total overhaul of the class to make them look like something closer to Kineticist, with each bloodline being a different specialization with unique bloodline adaptations and magical talents to represent them.
Oracle: possibly something similar to sorcerer, but I don't feel like just rolling oracle into "sorcerer but divine" or even worse "A couple of Bloodlines" seems fair to it.

[FaerieGodfather]

I'm a big fan of making Wizards and Magi (edit: and Witches) use Arcanist prep, Clerics are Warmage-style (with a reduced list), and Druids are spontaneous.

edit: And I must consider buffing Sorcerers somehow to compensate.

I have not really considered what to do with Alchemists or Oracles because I despise those classes.

[OmniMage]

Vancian magic works for Wizards. They are wise old men who have to consult a book to get their spells for the day. They don't sound very spontaneous. Unfortunately, the class doesn't have much going for it if they run out of spells per day, or lose their spellbook. Might as well be a commoner.

Looking at Sorcerers, they look like the devs were trying to break away from the standard model and try something new. Spontaneous spells. The apple didn't fall far from the tree. They do play differently, but again they are not much use when they use up their spells.

I would like there to be a class that cast spells like the Warlock(3.5) or Kineticist. The Warlock class didn't have that problem with running out of spells per day. Unfortunately the Warlock class was bound too strongly to the forces of evil and chaos (restricted alignment). The Kineticist allowed you to play as a bender (see Avatar the Last Airbender). Unfortunately, they had a masochist theme to them. Some powers cause burn as a consequence while other abilities get stronger as you gain burn. Burn leaves you with less hitpoints. They also have stronger bender theme than mage theme, which will disappoint some.

Thats my thoughts for right now.

[Warriorking9001]

I definitely understand wizards' prepared spells now moreso, though I think that making some kind of more obvious connection to that theme of "Vancian magic as rituals" could help to make the wizard feel more.. fitting. (Granted it's dumb to question magic systems like this because it's whatever the setting says they are)

With Alchemists, I can understand the hate somewhat but I just feel like they're the class that makes the most sense under this system of highly specific 'spells'.

and admittedly I kinda thought of the Sorcerer Revamp as the "Warlock/kineticist type Caster". gaining a small number of thematic abilities

[TheGreatWot]

FaerieGodfather wrote:

I'm a big fan of making Wizards and Magi (edit: and Witches) use Arcanist prep, Clerics are Warmage-style (with a reduced list), and Druids are spontaneous.

edit: And I must consider buffing Sorcerers somehow to compensate.

I have not really considered what to do with Alchemists or Oracles because I despise those classes.

Why the hate for alchemist and oracle? :p

[FaerieGodfather]

TheGreatWot wrote:

Why the hate for alchemist and oracle? :p

Alchemists are just trying to be too many different things at the same time. There's no thematic cohesion between bombs and mutagens, and I just have no idea what kind of iconic character archetype the class is supposed to represent.

And Oracles seem like a mechanical class with no real narrative basis-- their whole reason for being is to have a spontaneous divine spellcaster, without any clear reason why they should not just be a variant of the Cleric class.

Also, the mandatory Curse element of the class reminds me too much of late 90s White Wolf inspired game design.

[avr]

Agreed on alchemists. Oracles though can run great themes - better than a cleric who has few class features. The lack of class features probably comes from non-homebrew clerics having the best spellcasting mechanic in the game (full prepared, knowing every spell on their list automatically), bar none. The 'curse' which has mechanical benefits in every case is one more class feature to customise with.