Need help with a build PF 1E


Advice


So everyone I'm trying to build myself an unchained monk but seeing as i've never played one before I need some help. Any reccomendations or builds you guys can suggest would be very helpful.


I think the stats (PB, rolls etc) very much influence what you plan on doing. Right now my planned backup character in my friend's Curse of the Crimson Throne will be an UnMonk1/Eldritch Scoundrel 2 or 3. The spells give you self-casting Mage Armor or Shield (and can use wands no problem), but UnRogue gives you dex to damage. Since Flurry normally only lets you get 1xSTR, by going Rogue3 you're only giving up one BAB really and gaining a lot of versatility. I'd recommend another level of Rogue for 2nd level spells but after that you can do whatever you want with Monk. Feats are Crane Style, Weapon Focus, Accomplished Sneak Attacker (only necessary because of Eldritch Scoundrel) and Dazzling Display (paired with Bruising Intellect, but Hamatulasu works for giving Unarmed Strike both slashing and bludgeoning damage)


There is a pretty nice guide, although it has some notable issues, so I'm gonna give my take on the most important aspects:

Before anything, you probably should decide on whether you want to sue a weapon or not. UnMonk is proficient with every weapon with the monk special property, so there's plenty of choices. Upsided of weapons are cheap enchantment cost (although unamed can use handwraps instead of the classic Amulet of Mighty Fist, if you are OK with not getting the bonus on some style strikes), can be two-handed for 1.5xStr (that was changed from cMonk) and 3:1 Power Attack ration, can have reach, and can have different damage types. The downsides are that you can't use the bonus attack from spending ki, or style strikes, with weapons (unless you have the Ascetic Form feat, see below for more on that). That doesn't mean armed builds can't sue them, though - they can use an unarmed strike (usually the bonus attack from ki pool) to make the style strike and attack with the weapon the other attacks, which is something especially worthwhile for Flying Kick.

Archetypes:
Unlike cMonk, UnMonk is a fully functional class without archetypes, but there are some that are worth looking at:
Brazen Disciple replaces Still Mind and some bonus feats with bluff/feint stuff.
Invested Regent replaces the first bonus feat to grant you additional spell-like abilities in place of feats (bonus or regular), your pool won't be overly large but some of these SLAs are rather nice (e.g. Air Walk at 10th level).
Perfect Scolar replaces Still Mind and the 4th level ki power with a bonus to knowledges and a cute little accuracy boost.
Soul Sheperd replaces Stunning Fist and Evasion with DR and resistances.
Windstep Master replaces the 4th level ki power with the ability to walk on air. Already pretty nice, especially when you don't plan on taking Empty Body early on, it get's very good if your GM allows you to make Flying Kicks while in the air.

Feats: Apart from the archetype, your most important choice is probably ging to be which style chain/VMC you use.
The "normal" paths would be Dragon Style, Jabbing Style, VMC Barbarian, VMC Magus, or using none of the above.
The easiest method is Styleless, i.e. not using any style feat chain at all and instead grabbing assorted feats like Power Attack and Possessed Hand - it's not much weaker (at some early levels even stronger) than other styles and allows greater flexibility. This is possible both with a weapon and unarmed strikes.
Ascetic Style is something like the default style for armed - it's not exactly necessary, but it is much smoother (and more flavorful) than weapon based styleless, and it's also the highest damage non-VMC style. YOu basically geed all the goodies of both armed and unarmed (including ki pool's DR penetration ability, and even the scaling damage), for the cost of a few feats. Armed only.
Dragon Style is something like the default style for unarmed - low investment (only two feats) and comes online very early (3rd level). Unarmed only.
Jabbing Style depends a bit on the enemies - the higher the AC, the weaker it is. Also needs four feats and only becomes good at 9th, but can do a lot of damage if the enemies aren't high-AC ones. Unarmed only.
VMC Barbarian takes even more feats (every other feat, plus you probably want Extra Rage) and lowers your AC, but it comes online early (3rd level), and has some nice additional benefits (well, it's Rage), including a Rage Power at 11th level. Armed or unarmed.
VMC Magus takes at least as many feats (you definitely want Extra Magus Arcana, the Magus Arcana you get at 7th level will be Ki Arcana), comes partially online at 3rd level, but becomes truly crazy at 10th level, when you can basically make every attack against touch AC by (ab)using Accurate Strike and the Ki Leech ki power. Armed or unarmed.

Style Strikes: Your first or second style strike will be Flying Kick, period (the only exception would be if you expect lots of open battle field fights with enemies pretty far apart, and you want to use Pummeling Charge). It takes a while to be really good, which is why selecting it at 9th level is OK, especially when you aren't constantly dungeon crawling.

Ki Powers:There are too many ki powers to list all the good ones. Depending on your build and campaign, the best are often these: Empty Body (yes, you can really select it at 4th level, and it grants amazing versatility to a character normally lacking exactly that), Barkskin, Placebo Effect, Restoration, Freedom of Movement, Insightful Wisdom, Ki Leech, Dust Form, and Diamond Soul.

Multiclassing:Multiclassing is, of course, possible. UnMonk does gain quite a lot, though - bonus attack at 11th level, ki powers that can be very strong (like Ki Leech at 10th level), and style strikes/ improved Flying Kick range. A dip into Bloodrager would be Ok, but I wouldn't reccomend lowering your accuracy by dipping into a non-full-BAB class.

Equipment: There are three monk reach weapons, Double-chained Kama, Kusarigama, and Kyoketsu shoge. All are weird, but Kusarigama and
Kyoketsu shoge also have two different damage types. The damage is lower than Sansetsukon or Seven-branched Sword, but the reach should make up for it (and with Ascetic Style, they all do the same damage at 8th level). It's possible to flurry any melee weapon by using the Versatile Design weapon modification and Ascetic Form, but you need to spend a feat or two on proficiency, and mechanically, it's usually not worth it. For unarmed, you're stuck with Handwraps were mentioned, or the twice-as-expansive-to-enchant Amulet of Mighty Fists (which also blocks your neck slot, so you'd probably want the Barkskin ki power).
Something of a must have item is a Wand of Mage Armor, handed to an arcane caster of your choice. You an be generous with the charges, as your caster buddy should have 1st level spell slots to spare by the time you've used them all.

JiaYou wrote:
Since Flurry normally only lets you get 1xSTR (...)

That's not true for unMonk.

Grand Lodge

Unchained monks are fun! I've been helping my girlfriend build out with one of hers for PFS (I'm big on optimization, she's not) and he's fun to play with.

A big thing to keep in mind with monks, both chained and unchained, is that it can be hard to land your attacks with them compared to other martials. Fighters get weapon training, slayers get studied target, but monks get nothing in their base kit. Their unarmed strikes are even harder to get enchanted. So while at level 3 you can be making potentially three times the number of attacks (by spending a ki point) you might not be hitting on all of them. That said, it's not so bad with Unchained Monks that you have to worry about it too much. Weapon Focus can really go a long way. You just want to really make sure you have at least a 16 in whatever stat you use to determine your attack bonus, and strongly consider taking weapon focus, especially for Unarmed Strikes if you want focus on that.

A trick I learned is to pick up a +1 allying gauntlet and just always wield/wear it. Because while handwraps are a thing now (finally) they ONLY apply to your attacks made with your hands, nothing else- you're still going to want that amulet of mighty fists for things like ghost touch, agile, or, if you go the enforcer/cornugen smash feats, cruel. You gain no benefit from handwraps when using style strikes that don't use hands, and a lot of them (flying kick, head-butt, etc) don't use hands. And if you were carrying something that requires both hands and needed to attack, you're also out of luck there. That said, AoMF is expensive, and if you're playing PFS, the handwraps are not PFS legal.

A +1 Allying Gauntlet and 1 AoMF with an ability like Cruel costs a total of 12302 GP. A +1 Cruel AoMF costs 16,000. The difference is even bigger when you enchant your weapons higher- the next enchantment bonus up is 22302 gp vs 36,000 gp.

As far as feats go, Jabbing Style is good, especially if you focus on increasing your ability to hit- by level 9, when you can take Jabbing Master, you're at potentially 5 attacks (2 from BAB, 1 from Flurry, 1 bonus from a ki point, and 1 from haste). If you manage to hit with all of them, you're at 14d6 bonus damage, an average of 42 extra damage per round.
If consistent damage is what you're going for and you're strength based, Dragon Style and Dragon Ferocity are good options as well. Wont get better damage than Jabbing Style chain but requires far fewer feats and is a more static bonus to damage. Pairs well with a level dip in sorcerer and 4 levels of Dragon Disciple.
If Unarmed damage isn't your calling, using a double-chained kama or a kusarigama are good options for reach. Seven-branched sword pairs well with Improved Trip and Medusa's Wrath to make a target flat-footed (using a trip attempt). Waveblades are good for crit-fishing, just need Improved Critical or the keen enchantment. Keep in mind that your bonus attack from spending a ki point requires you using an unarmed attack, but your damage will be able to bypass damage reduction types easier with minimal loss of damage output.

Here is the Half-Orc monk my girlfriend is playing in PFS:

Spoiler:
Half-Orc, 20 point buy, lv 3
Traits: Reactionary, Fate's Favored
Alt racial trait: Sacred Tattoo
Str 14+2
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 9
Wis 16
Cha 7

Feats:
1) Weapon Focus (unarmed strike)
1) Dodge
2) Deflect Arrows
3) Jabbing Style
planned feats:
5) Power Attack
6) Mobility
7) Jabbing Dancer
9) Jabbing Master
10) Medusa's Wrath
11) Dazing Fist

planned Ki Powers:
4) Barkskin (Qinggong power)
6) Unsure as of now, possibly Gaseous Form (Qinggong power)
8) Abundant Step
10) Deadly Juggernaut, probably (Qinggong power)

planned Style Strikes:
5) Flying Kick
9) Elbow Smash

Equipment: Masterwork Cold Iron Double-Chained Kama, Masterwork seven-branched sword, Cold Iron shuriken, cloak of resistance, ring of protection +1

Will be picking up Ghost Touch AoMF and adding +1 Allying to the seven-branched sword eventually. Will be picking up Str and Wis belt/headbands.

Grand Lodge

Coming back to this I realized I didn't suggest pummeling style and pummeling charge as feats, as the first gives your unarmed damage a "clustered shots" ability of totaling damage before applying DR, and the 2nd allows you to pounce. Very good choice for style feats.


Because I forgot it, Bonus Feats: The stand out ones are Dodge, Deflect Arrows, and Medusa's Wrath, plus depending on campaign, build, and allies, Mobility and Combat Expertise. Improved Critical is the only one to directly increase your damage, but it's really weak at that.

­

Syries wrote:
You gain no benefit from handwraps when using style strikes that don't use hands, and a lot of them (flying kick, head-butt, etc) don't use hands.

Mathematically, a +1 higher enhancement bonus on handwraps is better then a lower AoMF even in round in which you have to make a Flying Kick. Of course, you then have different attack and damage rolls on that one attack, so it's not as smooth to play.

Syries wrote:
And if you were carrying something that requires both hands and needed to attack, you're also out of luck there.

Honestly, how often does that happen?

I don't think you can use allying on yourself - that's a case where being your own ally doesn't make sense.

Syries wrote:
Coming back to this I realized I didn't suggest pummeling style and pummeling charge as feats, as the first gives your unarmed damage a "clustered shots" ability of totaling damage before applying DR, and the 2nd allows you to pounce. Very good choice for style feats.

The issue with Pummeling Charge is that by the time you can select it, your Flying Kick already has 30ft range - usually, that's enough. And since you don't need to enter its stance to use Pummeling Style* (only for PCharge), you can use PStyle alongside another style. The same goes for Jabbing Style by the way, making it a nice feat to further boost unarmed damage.

*) Yes, it really works that way. Please no arguments, we had that discussion often enough.

Grand Lodge

Okay, I’m not arguing with you on this but it is the first time I’ve ever seen someone say this. Where does it say you don’t need to spend a swift action to enter into the style?

Grand Lodge

Why wouldn’t you be able to use allying on yourself? The enchantment bonus is being transferred from one weapon to another, and you do count as your own ally.

For the record I’ve never seen that ruling contested in PFS play and multiple 5-star GMs I know either use that strategy themselves or have agreed with that interpretation of Allying when it was brought up.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Need help with a build PF 1E All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.