| zazzenfuk |
I posted this on Reddit but I did not get any attention beyond one post and the poster said this is a grey area.
So I thought I would try my hand here.
I understand that this might have been covered but I've spent a good while with Google fu on Reddit and Piazo boards and still not gotten a concrete answer with evidence. The FAQ just does not address a few things so here are my queries. It calls out Point blank shot and smite evil. PBS says specifically ranged weapons and a long sword isnt a ranged weapon, I get that. Smite evil is a special ability but what about other feats...
Looking at a Gestalt concept, fighter with some class that can cast telekinesis. Say level 15 and using Telekinesis to throw 15 regular long swords. We have weapon training +3, Weapon Focus and weapon specialization on long swords. Now when we use Violent thrust on those 15 blades, do you use
Violent thrust Long sword has BAB and modifiers +3(WT) +1(WF) to hit and does 1d8+3 Weapon training +2 Weapon specialization Per sword
or
Violent thrust Long sword has BAB and modifiers to hit and does 1d8 Per sword
Big reason for this issue is how these abilities are worded.:
Weapon Specialization adds +2 on All damage rolls you make using the selected weapon.
Weapon training says : Whenever he attacks with a weapon from this group, he gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls.
I'm inclined to think this is correct but I am hoping that someone can either explain why I am wrong or right with some evidence on this.
My issue is with the wording of the feats and how they are worded to specifically say the word All. In the sense of specific trumps general which is unfortunately is how we have to deal with these types of issues, their is no caveat in the feat where it says it doesn't apply to damage. Unlike power attack which says in the description "The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage. "
For weapon spec. you use the weapon, you get the bonus to damage. and while the FAQ says " apply them on hit point damage only, and only once per casting or use, rather than once per attack". Using Point blank shot points out that you add +1 bonus to damage with ranged weapons (Long sword is not a ranged weapon, its a melee). It also points out that you don't add any enhancement to or on the weapon. The Arcane Strike bit we could infer that its an enhancement bonus because it makes your weapon treated as magical and is imbued with your magical essence. That and the FAQ specifies that you Enhance your melee weapon. If all the swords were all +1 swords, you don't add +1 to damage because of the enhancement bonus addressed in the FAQ but Weapon Spec. is an untyped flat bonus to damage. It's not an Enhancement, Competent, Insight, Luck Etc.. bonus. It's its own thing, and it says ALL damage with that weapon.
you are casting the spell telekinesis but you are making one attack roll per weapon (15 in this case) and only dealing the weapons damage die. The spell calls out to specify that you do not add your strength damage to the roll, but it neglects to mention any feats or bonus damage for using the weapon the character might have. If you were making one attack roll for all weapons with the one casting of the spell, I could see that you go by the ruling of casting. Its just so wonky because your are casting a spell and then making attack rolls. Just like you would for something like scorching ray, where you cast the spell and then attack with the Ray on your turn. If you had a the means to cast 2 scorching rays in one round, it would be the same thing, you cast the spell and make an attack roll for both and add whatever the spell says to damage.
But with Violent thrust it's different, and it specifically lays out what it does and what it does not allow for that use of the spell. You use your BAB + your casting modifier to hit and the weapons cause standard damage with no Strength bonus. Coming back to the Weapon Specialization: You gain a +2 bonus on all damage rolls you make using the selected weapon.
I know that this is something that came about because its beyond the scope of the core mechanic. A fighter never had the ability to cast telekinesis before ( unless they had a ring of Telekinesis) whereas now, you can play a mindsword Paladin or a Fighter with Item mastery, and this never got addressed beyond a generic errata FAQ.
On the Reddit: Gilgamesh Telekenisis thread, the common acceptance is that Deadly aim would work with this spell but with the FAQ you could argue that it applies to only 1 weapon and thus you would add +6 to damage for one sword but suffer a -6 to hit on all of your other thrown swords. That and if you addressed the idea of having improved critical: Long sword feat stacked with spell critical of the Eldritch Knight, you are 99.99% likely to crit your target with 15 attack rolls that all have a threat range of 17-20. Because again it just says when using the weapon you've selected.
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uamg?Telekinesis-What-Bonuses-does-Violent-Th rust
Fuzzy says yes but has nothing to back it up, beyond saying "should work" And " I say it does"
I appreciate peoples feedback on this. I could go either way on ruling but again, I would just like a definitive answer.
| Meirril |
Combat feats only apply when you are taking an appropriate action. If you are making a ranged attack, feats that apply to ranged attacks work.
To use Telekinesis you will either be casting a spell, using a SLA, or activating a magic item. You won't be making an attack action.
Some combat feats apply to spells, but they are exceptions with specific allowances not general rules. As in you can apply Weapon Focus (ray) to spells with a ray effect. You can't take Weapon Focus (touch). There is no exception to the rule that weapon focus requires a weapon that would allow it.
The spell specifies what you get. You aren't wielding the weapons, they are just dangerous objects that you are tossing around. You don't need proficiency with the weapons, because you aren't wielding them. If feats mattered, most wizards would take a -4 non-proficiency penalty to every attack. But that spell doesn't rely on skill to toss hard objects, it just does what it does. Weapons receive a bonus to damage relative to weight because the designers like it. Not because the spell properly wields each and every weapon like it should be. This is also the reason arrows and bolts do dagger damage because they are just being tossed, not launched as a ranged attack from an appropriate weapon.
And no, Deadly Aim shouldn't apply unless you are actually using an attack action. Spell damage generally doesn't get adds and when it does, its from sources that say they can. Like sneak attack and Blood Havoc.