Hello. Is this the right place to make a monster?
I'm in need of some help for my last creation.
The base idea was to create a social back-stabber. I babble a lot, look like a friendly guy and then I put a dagger through the neck/heart/vital organ of the person I'm speaking to.
I indead up filling some gaps in my group, meaning I'm also the skill-monkey/knowledgeable guy around (and I tell you, this group of illiterates do need someone of my quality).
I've recently started toying with my build after reading several threads here, but I'm kinda at loss as to what make of my character after level 12th.
I use a homebrew subracial for Tiefling which swap the attributes and give me Charm Person instead of Darkness as my spell like ability. For the rest, it's classical rules.
We're level 7 at the moment, in a pseudo KingMaker campaign (so gold isn't likely to be a problem) and we should soon(ishly cause my GM is hard) get access to vast amounts of adamantine.
The build is:
STR: 7 INT: 14 + 2(Headband) = 16
DEX: 16 + 2(Racial) + 1 (Level) + 2 (Belt) = 21 WIS: 12 - 2 (Racial) = 10
CON: 12 + 2 (Belt) = 14 CHA: 14 + 2(Racial) = 16
HP 52
CA 20
Saves:
Dex : +13, Con: +6, Wis: +6 (with a cape of resistance +2)
Unchained Rogue(Knife Master) 1: Persuasive
Bard(Archivist) 1
Unchained Rogue(Knife Master) 2: Underhanded, Quick Draw
Unchained Rogue(Knife Master) 3: Finesse Training (Dagger), +1 DEX
Unchained Rogue(Knife Master) 4: Combat Trick(TWF), Betrayer
Unchained Rogue(Knife Master) 5
Unchained Rogue(Knife Master) 6: Ninja trick(pressure point), Prestige
By now, I have +17 Diplomacy, +15 Bluff, +15 Stealth and +15 Sleight of Hand (22 to conceal a dagger, without the dagger bonus). My follower is a Large grapple orc, and one of my team-mate can reliably flank with me, so we can both maximize our damage.
My dagger deals 1d4 + 5 damages + 1 point of attribute temporary reduction.
The sneak attacks add 3d8 per attack, with a +9 to touch.
On a Betrayer strike, that means 33 damages net, with 1 point of attribute reduction, either in STR or DEX.
For a level 7, that seems *weak* (especially with the numbers I see flying around here). My average DPS in fight is decent, as long as I can sneak attack reliably (i.e. if I got one of my two flankers) but I'd like to amp up this weakling.
What I had I mind was to dip a level in Kensaï Magus, to get Favorite Weapon, Cunning Defence and a little bit more of spellcasting for versatility (+ all cantrips).
Then keep piling up Unchained Knife Master levels, get Wave Strike at lv 9 (optionnal, but nice to have more "surprise-eat-my-dagger") and ITWF at level 11 (can't fit it before, cause of the BBA restriction). Skill Mastery would also be nice at lv 12, just to handwave most of the social tests before slicing someone's throat.
My problems are:
A) I'm nowhere near skilled in optimization (at least, not on this forum level). And it feels *weak*. My DM is a huge optimizer, and he prefers throwing us on big optimized encounter per day than three smaller. I need to be able to play the political assassin, but also kill what comes our way.
B) I'm at loss as what to do after. Seems like by level 12, all the straighforward paths are taken, and I don't know what to do with skills and feats. I suppose I can keep getting more sneak attacks, but I don't know how to get the most of them.
I mainly got to my social-trickster/con-artist/backstabber vibe, but I lack the one-shot aspect, as well as ideas for what's next.
Any help appreciated.
The damage is OK, it's just that you're only making one attack. It's the problem with a lot of sneak attack stuff, one attack isn't usually a one-shot despite expectations. Sneak attack is actually better at debuffs when used with a single attack; you usually need multiple attacks to kill.
About debuffing - any chance you could get your darkness ability back? Blinding sneak attack (a feat) is pretty good.
A flat-footed oppoent doesn't really need to be feinted as well, wave strike is a waste. Feats to aim for might include lunge, posessed hand or hellcat stealth.
Forgot to mention:
I have a belt of physical might (+2 Dex, +2 Con) and a cloak of resistance +2.
Will soon get spring loaded wrist sheath, but we're kinda short on magical items, since our GM prefer a low magic universe.
Also, I meant feats and talents, not feats and skill, when I was asking for guidance at higher level.
Would casting darkness with the Magus level work? Since you can cast it with a rapid action, could it fit the bill? I vaguely remember the feat, but not the wording. -- Just read it, no, missed an opportunity here. It's gonna be hard to get it back, so I think it's lost forever...
Kensai doesn't seem to add that much. Canny defence is only INT to AC to a maximum of your Kensai level, so at level 1 you'll get +1AC provided you're wearing no armour. Spell-Combat is nice, but the Kensai gets reduced spell-casting so you'll have 2 cantrips and 1 first-level spell per day. Weapon Focus is nice but that's really the main thing you'll be getting out of it.
If you want more unarmoured defence, the Scaled Fist Monk gets you CHA to AC for a 1-level dip. There's an Oracle Mystery or Archetype that gets you the same thing, but I forget what it's called.
Personally I'd keep going with Rogue. At your next level you get another sneak attack die, which means that initial strike goes up to 41 damage. You could take BLEEDING ATTACK as your next rogue talent and FLENSING STRIKE as your next feat at level 9. This gives you 4 points of bleed damage (nothing special, but not terrible), but also reduces their AC by 4 PER ATTACK (up to a point) and gives them the sickened condition. The penalty to their armour class will give you a better chance to hit and increase your DPR more than most damage buffs at this point.
You could also take a level (or levels) in ASSASSIN for Death Attack (and more Sneak Attack). Death Attack will have a DC 13 Fort save to negate, but that would be a nice opening strike. Combining that with your extra sneak attack dice would net you 41 damage and a DC 13 fort save vs death/paralysis.
If you go Assassin I'd check a few things with your GM:
1. Do you need to be evil (are you evil?).
2. How does Death Attack work? (can you use it in the way you've been using your opening attack while talking to "enemies"?)
3. How does your Sneak Attack Damage scale with Assassin? Do you still get d8's with your daggers (& d4's with everything else) or do the Sneak Attack dice from Assassin all become d6's?
Also do you have a magic weapon? Because that would increase your damage as well, and it seems pretty late to be playing without one.
We managed to find one +1 dagger. As I said, magic items are hard to get by, cause of the low-magic setting. So one magic weapon, and lots of regular knives...
I'm a CN (Capitalist Neutral) Tiefling, and we have a very narrow minded first time Paladin, so Evil is kind of difficult.
Didn't realize Uncanny Defense was per level. It seems pretty useless then (thought it was a flat INT to AC).
We will be facing three, or rather four types of foes: orcs (can bleed, check), trolls (bummer, regeneration takes that away) and demons (can... bleed? Never checked). And of course, the regular negociations with normal races that bleed. So probably worth it, but should I get Flensing strike before or after ITWF? If I go full Unchained Rogue, I can get it at level 9, given the BBA progression.
I don't get what the betrayer feat really does, besides giving the opponent a very circumstantial -2 on initiative. Wouldn't you be able to do all that without the feat?
I don't get what the betrayer feat really does, besides giving the opponent a very circumstantial -2 on initiative. Wouldn't you be able to do all that without the feat?
Betrayer gets you an attack as an immediate action. This means if you bluff them to get a surprise round you get an extra attack (one as an immediate action, one as a standard action). If you then beat their initiative (which is easier now that they have a -2) you can also have your first full-round attack before they stop being flat-footed (so potentially 4 sneak attacks without needing a flank at this level).
Didn't realize Uncanny Defense was per level. It seems pretty useless then (thought it was a flat INT to AC).
Yeah I know it's not a great ability for a dip.
I'm a CN (Capitalist Neutral) Tiefling, and we have a very narrow minded first time Paladin, so Evil is kind of difficult.
Yeah I wouldn't go evil then. If your GM is ok with Assassin levels WITHOUT being evil then it's ok, but it's never a good idea to make an antagonistic PC (without consulting the group first).
We will be facing three, or rather four types of foes: orcs (can bleed, check), trolls (bummer, regeneration takes that away) and demons (can... bleed? Never checked). And of course, the regular negociations with normal races that bleed. So probably worth it, but should I get Flensing strike before or after ITWF? If I go full Unchained Rogue, I can get it at level 9, given the BBA progression.
That depends a bit on how well you hit. Bleeding Attack isn't a huge damage buff (4hp/round), but if you can hit multiple enemies in the first round or two it can stack up. If you're having trouble hitting already (or not being great at it) Flensing Strike gives you up to +4 to hit per attack, which can be pretty great. Improved TWF gives you an extra attack at a -5 to hit penalty. This means your attack routine will look something like this:
Flensing Strike:
+4/+8/+7 (I've converted the enemy's "-4AC" into a "+4 to hit" for ease of use. Also this assumes you hit every time and the enemy has +8 Natural Armour, so probably not really that good.
Improved TWF:
+4/+4/-1/-1
So obviously that's the very best scenario for Flensing Strike, there are a couple of caveats.
1. If the enemy doesn't bleed (troll) you're not adding anything.
2. If the enemy doesn't have a high Natural Armour bonus you get a lot less benefit.
3. Flensing Strike requires you to get your Sneak Attack off, so if you can't flank/feint you've spent a feat and a talent on nothing (I'm assuming this isn't a deterrent or you wouldn't have gone Rogue, but worth noting).
The 2 big draws of Flensing Strike are:
1. The penalty to Natural Armour is basically a team-buff.
2. The Sickened penalty on the enemy means this is a defensive ability as well as an offensive one.
That was too much information, sorry.
TLDR: The more damage you do per hit, and the better your chances of hitting are, the better ITWF is. If you're having trouble hitting, and/or not doing as much damage per hit then Flensing Strike becomes better.
If you do go with Flensing Strike, I'd try to hit as many enemies in the first round as possible.
The Bleed Effect and the Sickened effect won't stack with themselves, so hitting 3 enemies once will do a lot more to change the combat than hitting one enemy 3 times. If you win Initiative you can take your full-attack action (at level 9 that's 3 attacks with TWF) and you can throw daggers to get sneak attack damage to any enemy within 30'who hasn't acted.
With that in mind, another good feat for you is Improved Initiative.