Hi! So, Im a player in a campaign that is running past level 20 and into what I am assuming to be max 30? My gm hasnt decided. My friend is a playing a warpriest for the first time and has decided she wants to be our party healer. Ive read over the warpriest and dont see any reason at all as to why this class exist...it kind of looks like the cleric....but with more damage and less magic. I see no reason for this class to be a thing. Anyway, She is spread really thin because of how she wants to play this. She is a Drow Warpriest that worships the Goddess Freya (Third party god). Her stats are Str: 14 Dex: 11 Con:14 Int: 14 Wis: 15 and Cha: 11 (20 point buy) We desperately need help with her feet progression up to 20 at least. She needs one slot at least for skill focus. As stated above she wants to be the party healer and deal some additional damage. So our priority is Damage > survivability > healing.
Our party make-up is a human musket master, orc fighter (improvised weapons only) and her. Please help!
Well, the warpriest exists as a more offensively-oriented version of the cleric. They can be pretty monstrous when going for combat, with swift action self-buffs and potentially a lot of quick healing... for themselves.
To be honest, I would not recommend them as a party healer.
I also would not recommend trying to prioritize damage with those stats.
But if she is adamant, give us a little more. Is she going to be using her goddess's favored weapon? If so, what is it? If not, what does she intend to use?
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Meh, if you adhere to the notion that you don't need a party healer, then a warpriest is a great class. They still get to do some decent out of combat healing, they can restore ability damage, both of which necessarily include using wands and scrolls of the same, and they're pretty good in combat to boot.
Instead of worrying about feats, first, look at your stat spread. It's like you're trying to cover all of the bases when you character is designed only to cover some combat and divine goodness. Your race and god are... suspect, too. Anyway...
1) You don't need a 14 INT. Drop it to 10 and get 5 points back.
2) The 14 CON is costing you half of your entire point buy. Drop it to 12 and get 5 points back. If you don't want to do this, then pick a race that doesn't penalize CON!
3) With those 10 points, and 1 from dropping DEX to 10, you can get to 16 STR and 15 WIS with a 12 CHA (extra channel per day).
You don't mention traits, but Fate's Favored is a must because it basically adds 3 caster levels to divine favor and divine power and it adds +1 to each bonus with prayer for you.
You get free weapon focus. There's a lot of good argument that says a 2H weapon is best. With Freya, you aren't taking advantage of her favored weapon anyway, so pick whatever you want but keep in mind, before any buffs, with the stats I just mentioned, you're +4 to hit and 2d6+4 at 1st level with a greatsword. Just sayin...
Toughness as your first feat makes up for the loss in CON.
Then:
3 Furious focus
3B Power attack
5 Extra Channel (now 5 per day)
6B Armor focus (whatever you intend to wear)
7 Martial focus (heavy blades, essentially weapon specialization)
9 Lightning reflexes (you need it, might as well)
9B Lunge
11 Improved critical (greatsword)
12B Critical focus
13 Quicken blessing (fast healing)
15 Extra channel (now 7 per day)
I'm a little thin beyond this. There's a lot of options, particularly with weapon mastery. I also don't know about divine fighting styles for 3rd party. Greatsword is Gorum, FWIW.
Im afraid there is nothing we can do about her stats now as we arent able to change them at this point for reasons which are irreverent. I am sorry that ive failed to mention that freya's weapon of choice is the long sword which our warpriest is using, I know she already has her traits as well which our gm wont let us change though I dont remember what exactly she chose.
I'd choose a slightly different bunch of feats. Channelling is not good for a warpriest or in a small party, and she really needs more attack bonus. Also it's probably worth noting her blessings - Charm and Plant should be appropriate to Freya and useful to your warpriest.
3: Power Attack
3B: Furious Focus
5: Magical Epiphany (this lets you leave a spell slot open for situational healing spells - remove blindness, remove fear etc. and to fill it as and when required)
6B: Weapon Spec. (longsword)
7: Fortified Armor Training
9: Martial Focus
9B: Greater Weapon Focus (longsword)
11: Improved Critical (longsword)
12B: Greater Weapon Spec. (longsword)
13: Cut from the Air
15: Critical Focus
15B: Staggering Critical
17: Smash from the Air
18B: Stunning Critical
19: Contingent Spell
avr wrote: I'd choose a slightly different bunch of feats. Channelling is not good for a warpriest or in a small party, and she really needs more attack bonus. Also it's probably worth noting her blessings - Charm and Plant should be appropriate to Freya and useful to your warpriest.
3: Power Attack
3B: Furious Focus
5: Magical Epiphany (this lets you leave a spell slot open for situational healing spells - remove blindness, remove fear etc. and to fill it as and when required)
6B: Weapon Spec. (longsword)
7: Fortified Armor Training
9: Martial Focus
9B: Greater Weapon Focus (longsword)
11: Improved Critical (longsword)
12B: Greater Weapon Spec. (longsword)
13: Cut from the Air
15: Critical Focus
15B: Staggering Critical
17: Smash from the Air
18B: Stunning Critical
19: Contingent Spell
I appreciate the impute, it looks like these feats will keep her pretty offensive as she progresses though I do worry about her healing still, I know she isnt the best healer but wants to do it the best she can for the class she is.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Yeah, I was using HL to build the thing and weapon specialization doesn't show up as available yet (they have a note regarding that).
Channeling is fine, just not for in-combat healing. The OP did say the player wants to be the healer, that's the best way for bulk healing, which is why I suggested that. Selective channeling would be good, too, which helps in-combat if you have multiple wounded.
You could move Contingent Spell up to 9th level and shift Martial Focus, Cut from the Air and Smash from the Air up to levels 13, 17, 19. That would give her the option of casting healing spells in advance, though at a +2 spell level cost and of course getting those defensive options a little later. The offensive options are harder to shift around, bound as they are to the bonus feats.
avr wrote: You could move Contingent Spell up to 9th level and shift Martial Focus, Cut from the Air and Smash from the Air up to levels 13, 17, 19. That would give her the option of casting healing spells in advance, though at a +2 spell level cost and of course getting those defensive options a little later. The offensive options are harder to shift around, bound as they are to the bonus feats. Im talking to our gm about readjusting her stats currently, if we adjusted them to be more along the lines of what taks suggested, then would channel energy still not be the way to go for one or two feats? I see its uses outside of battle.
Warpriest - most underrated class ever.
Though with these stats and deity it gets really hard :(
A warpriest with Healing Blessing makes a really decent healer while sacrificing no defensive or offensive capability. Without, you have to burn through Fervor or spells, both of which are very important to be decent in combat.
Since Healing Blessing is out of discussion, did you consider Arsenal Chaplain? They give you more martial options.
You might go the Greater Weapon of the Chosen feat line with Vital Strike. It's better for a 18-20 crit weapon but longsword will be ok and its damage dice will be high enough (especially if on lvl 20-30 your GM lets it scale further)
Prof. Löwenzahn wrote: Warpriest - most underrated class ever.
Though with these stats and deity it gets really hard :(
A warpriest with Healing Blessing makes a really decent healer while sacrificing no defensive or offensive capability. Without, you have to burn through Fervor or spells, both of which are very important to be decent in combat.
Since Healing Blessing is out of discussion, did you consider Arsenal Chaplain? They give you more martial options.
You might go the Greater Weapon of the Chosen feat line with Vital Strike. It's better for a 18-20 crit weapon but longsword will be ok and its damage dice will be high enough (especially if on lvl 20-30 your GM lets it scale further)
We havnt considered the arsenal chaplain, im under the impression that she wants to play the base warpriest.
No, outside of battle the superior option is wands of cure light wounds. Channelling is for level 1-2 clerics who can't afford wands yet (but not warpriests, who want their fervor for swift-casting spells; "Using this ability is a standard action that expends two uses of his fervor ability") and for use in-combat when when there are multiple people who need healing at once.
I don't think Extra Channel would even apply to a warpriest. While they get Channel Energy they don't get a separate pool of uses for it, they use 2 uses of Fervor as noted above. Warpriests have no use at all for charisma.
If you want a feat which gives extra free healing then the Curative Mastery feat might help. Get it in place of Martial Focus maybe, Contingent Spell at 13, then start on Martial Focus since you hint that you might go beyond 20 you could still reach Smash from the Air at 21.
avr wrote: No, outside of battle the superior option is wands of cure light wounds. Channelling is for level 1-2 clerics who can't afford wands yet (but not warpriests, who want their fervor for swift-casting spells; "Using this ability is a standard action that expends two uses of his fervor ability") and for use in-combat when when there are multiple people who need healing at once.
I don't think Extra Channel would even apply to a warpriest. While they get Channel Energy they don't get a separate pool of uses for it, they use 2 uses of Fervor as noted above. Warpriests have no use at all for charisma.
If you want a feat which gives extra free healing then the Curative Mastery feat might help. Get it in place of Martial Focus maybe, Contingent Spell at 13, then start on Martial Focus since you hint that you might go beyond 20 you could still reach Smash from the Air at 21.
I believe extra channel would work fine on the war priest as other classes like the paladin also must expend two uses of an ability to channel like their "lay on hands", so thus im sure it would work the same way that it does for paladins who take it. I also just noticed that magical empathy is only available to those who worship nethys so she cant take it anyway, maybe we could replace it with curative mastery?
Ah right, there was an update in the ACG for Extra Channel. I was looking at the original. It's still a bad idea IMO.
A closer equivalent to Magical Epiphany would be Scribe Scroll, but sure you could take Curative Mastery instead.
avr wrote: Ah right, there was an update in the ACG for Extra Channel. I was looking at the original. It's still a bad idea IMO.
A closer equivalent to Magical Epiphany would be Scribe Scroll, but sure you could take Curative Mastery instead.
I actually think I really love the feats you have presented to me now that ive read into all of them and adjusted them slightly. Not much changed of course, Curative master is there now and skill focus is her level 1 feat. I wish i could work toughness in there to but hey, cant always go perfectly. Ive also adjusted her stats. It looks something like this now. Str:16 Dex:12 Con:12 Int:10 Wis:15 Cha:10. She is actually our charisma character funny enough but skill focus diplomacy has served her really well so far not to mention all the ranks she has in it usually gives her an instant pass. We can always fix her constitution by pounding most of her levels favored class bonus into hp.
Warpriest do not need CHA. It has no effect on any of their abilities.
Warpriests can make decent in combat healers, for themselves. They can do this as a swift action with fervor.
Have her run into the mix of bad guys and set up flanking for the orc. This makes her more of a target to be takened out. With self buffs and a shield, her AC should be good enough to ward off a decent number of attacks. She just needs to make herself enough of a threat to be attacked.
Matt2VK wrote: Warpriest do not need CHA. It has no effect on any of their abilities.
Warpriests can make decent in combat healers, for themselves. They can do this as a swift action with fervor.
Have her run into the mix of bad guys and set up flanking for the orc. This makes her more of a target to be takened out. With self buffs and a shield, her AC should be good enough to ward off a decent number of attacks. She just needs to make herself enough of a threat to be attacked.
We are aware that they dont need Cha. This campaign has been a big experiment for us as players, Im typically the face of the party. In this campaign I gave my character the anxiety draw back and put no points toward any speaking skills. Im a very active player, our war priest is kind of a passive player who sits back and just rolls with the party. She decided to play our diplomacy character this time around so now she is forced to interact and role play much much more which is new for her. But we are all happy it gets her involved more and even with no charisma bonus, she is still doing very well.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Those are about the stats I was talking about, except INT 12 instead of DEX 12 (if you'll be wearing heavy armor, DEX won't matter except for your reflex save).
Using a wand in between combat rounds is certainly the go to, but you don't always have time. That's very GM/campaign dependent. Sometimes, too, you simply need to heal everyone in combat at least a little, to get that one extra round. Our Giantslayer campaign has a shaman that fills the role rather nicely.
I agree, Prof. Lowenzahn, the warpriest is underrated. Even the class guides are lacking (they lack for the investigator, too, unfortunately, my current favorite class). One of the interesting warpriest builds is the forgepriest archetype - if you can afford the time cost to craft (GM/campaign dependent again, and right out for PFS). Of course, the forgepriest is even less of a healer.
taks wrote: Those are about the stats I was talking about, except INT 12 instead of DEX 12 (if you'll be wearing heavy armor, DEX won't matter except for your reflex save).
Using a wand in between combat rounds is certainly the go to, but you don't always have time. That's very GM/campaign dependent. Sometimes, too, you simply need to heal everyone in combat at least a little, to get that one extra round. Our Giantslayer campaign has a shaman that fills the role rather nicely.
I agree, Prof. Lowenzahn, the warpriest is underrated. Even the class guides are lacking (they lack for the investigator, too, unfortunately, my current favorite class). One of the interesting warpriest builds is the forgepriest archetype - if you can afford the time cost to craft (GM/campaign dependent again, and right out for PFS). Of course, the forgepriest is even less of a healer.
Do you really think one should sacrifice the additional dex though? her mythril full plate of speed gives her lots of room for additional dex to her ac, not to mention the little but well needed bonus to her reflex save. any dex is better than no dex, plus 1 int? thats 3 skills per level. Is it really worth it? She will only be using a few, diplomacy, know:religion, use magic device i guess, and perception being the most common.
Is there a reason for her to take ranks in know: religion? I think it's fine for 1 or 2 ranks for "character flavor" but thats about it. All the other skills can be useful for what it sounds like she's trying to build.
I'd be more in favor of the 12 DEX as it boosts way more then INT does for the warpriest. DEX increases initiative, AC, reflex, and more skills she'll probably actively use then what you'd get from the INT.
Sorry about the CHA crack, put that post in there in response to someone else's post about CHA boosting channeling.
UMD you only need one rank in for Curative Mastery. Assuming she maxes perception and diplomacy and uses another skill point/level for some know (religion), one rank in UMD, and the odd other skill (maybe some sense motive if she's the face) - that's 3 skills per level.
Dex 12 is indeed better than dex 10. It's just that to get dex 12 she will need to make sacrifices somewhere else.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
A single ioun stone gets you to 12 DEX. Any more is only going to apply to reflex. Know (religion, arcana, and planes) are the big three, btw. Heal, preception, and one of the other class skills would be my choices anyway. Unfortunately, with the drow, those two points can really only be put into DEX or INT and make a difference.
The OP has stated diplomacy is her choice, and with only a 10 CHA, the extra point every level will be useful. Realistically, with magic items, the distinctions are almost unnoticeable.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't putting my foot down or anything. Both have their pros and cons. That's just the way I saw it and the subsequent rationalization I used.
She has decided to take the points for her skills so int:12 is what we are going with. We really appreciate all of the help you guys have given us. Im so glad I made an account for paizo, the answers here have always been pretty helpful and the community seems to be much nicer and willing to work with you than a few other boards ive seen. I tend to get a lot of "The thing you want to do isnt optimization and is kind of stupid, just give up and play something everyone else is building right now", any time ive ever asked questions about something a left of the norm that ive wanted to play. So again. Thank you guys for your help.
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