Alchemist Bomb Splash Damage and Damage Modifiers

[Usagihunter101]

Ran into a situation playing my Alchemist where he was affected by a Bard's Inspire Courage giving his bombs +1 damage. Does this damage bonus also applies to splash damage?

RAW: "Splash damage from an alchemist bomb is always equal to the bomb’s minimum damage (so if the bomb would deal 2d6+4 points of fire damage on a direct hit, its splash damage would be 6 points of fire damage)."

Anyone have a rules clarification as to whether additional damage modifiers apply to the bomb and/or its splash damage?

[Andy Brown]

I don't think there's an official answer, but I'd be inclined to treat it the same as Point Blank Shot and say you don't get it on the splash

[Falkyron]

Inspire Courage wrote:

An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on ... weapon damage rolls.

It specifically affects weapons.

Bomb wrote:

Bombs are considered weapons

Bombs are weapons. Contrary to popular belief you can only crit with the base 1d6 damage, but you affect the base 1d6 damage with feats you wouldn't expect.

bomb wrote:

Splash damage from an alchemist bomb is always equal to the bomb’s minimum damage

Your minimum weapon damage with the bombs is increased by Inspire Courage.

Andy Brown wrote:

I don't think there's an official answer, but I'd be inclined to treat it the same as Point Blank Shot and say you don't get it on the splash

I agree with this ruling with Point-Blank shot, as the splash damage is incidental to a direct hit, but I don't believe this applies to us. Inspire Courage increases your weapon damage. It doesn't apply a +1 bonus to damage if the damage is from a ranged attack roll within 30 feet.

That's how I see it.

[Dave Justus]

Splash Damage is it's own thing, it isn't weapon damage, it is splash damage. You don't get the bonus.

[Andy Brown]

I've just been rereading previous threads on this, and come to the conclusion that the answers is "don't know, ask your GM".

The only thing that people seem to agree on is that you can't use a bonus twice (splash = increased minimum + same bonus again).
I kind of dislike the argument that Inspire Courage doesn't apply "because splash isn't a damage roll" though.
I'm still inclined not to add PBS, Inspire Courage & similar bonuses to splash, because it's just an effect that happens, rather than being something the PCs control.

[Falkyron]

Dave Justus wrote:

Splash Damage is it's own thing, it isn't weapon damage, it is splash damage. You don't get the bonus.

Bomb wrote:

Splash damage from an alchemist bomb is always equal to the bomb’s minimum damage

Please enlighten me Dave. From direct quotes from the Bomb ability itself, I can determine the minimum damage of a bomb thrown by an alchemist with 18 Intelligence who has +1 to weapon damage rolls from Inspire Courage is 7 (the minimum damage of 2d6+5).

Which rules, FAQ, or even blog post from a developer beyond an out-of-field decision on Point-Blank Shot can you show which would make it arbitrarily only 6 damage? The language in the ability is very clear, as is what 'weapon damage' itself 'is'.

The Inspire Courage ability increases the bomb's actual damage, and is not a special effect like a magic weapon special ability. In that moment, the bomb's damage is 1 higher because the alchemist is more capable at that time thanks to bardic inspiration. He temporarily throws a better bomb because his bard is using a teamwork ability which is working entirely as intended.

I hesitate to try and nitpick based on presumptions in this case as it only serves to make the bard feel worse for supporting its team. If you would rule adding Inspire Courage to the splash is so terrible, then what other things that Inspire Courage adds to would you consider negating for perhaps no other reason but to make the bard contribute less? Cantrips? Arrow volleys?

[MrCharisma]

I have a vague memory that Inspire Courage only affects damage rolls if the damage comes from a to-hit roll. So the direct damage to the foe you attacked would get the bonus to-) hit and damage, but the splash damage doesn't (because there's no to-hit roll, you don't get any bonus to damage either).

I can't quote anything for this though, so I'm prepared to be proven wrong. I also could be remembering text from a different ability (like, a point blank shot faq or something).

[Andy Brown]

Falkyron wrote:

Dave Justus wrote:

Splash Damage is it's own thing, it isn't weapon damage, it is splash damage. You don't get the bonus.

Bomb wrote:

Splash damage from an alchemist bomb is always equal to the bomb’s minimum damage

Please enlighten me Dave. From direct quotes from the Bomb ability itself, I can determine the minimum damage of a bomb thrown by an alchemist with 18 Intelligence who has +1 to weapon damage rolls from Inspire Courage is 7 (the minimum damage of 2d6+5).

Which rules, FAQ, or even blog post from a developer beyond an out-of-field decision on Point-Blank Shot can you show which would make it arbitrarily only 6 damage? The language in the ability is very clear, as is what 'weapon damage' itself 'is'.

I think the argument is that Inspire Courage doesn't increase the minimum damage, which remains at 2d6 + INT, it adds to the final damage, making it 2d6 + INT + 1. Basically, the bomb's minimum damage always remains at the value you get from the ability, and you never get any additional bonuses on splash damage.

This argument is based on the ability not defining whether 'minimum damage' includes or excludes bonus static damage from things like Point Blank Shot and Inspire Courage.