| LordKailas |
That's going to be hard since PFS doesn't go to high level and if you're a PFS DM you pretty much aren't allowed to make modifications to the senarios.
As a DM in a home game you can do whatever you like. When it comes to dealing with highly optimized characters the easiest route is to simply adjust to accommodate it. If an ability or combination is being abused you can either use it yourself for your monsters or not allow it's use at your table.
If you need to make an encounter more challenging there are some tweaks you can make that most players won't notice since they fall within what's "normal" for the monsters.
Use max HP: instead of just running monsters as they are in the book figure out what their max hp would be based on their HD and use that instead.
Apply Templates: You can mix and match templates to your heart's desire in order to add new offensive capabilities or shore up defenses where the enemy is lacking.
Use a higher ECL: Instead of designing an encounter that's based on the party's actual level, treat them as if they were 2-3 levels higher and build an encounter based on the new ecl. But still give exp as if the encounter was equal to the party's level. In a campaign I was running I started running the group through adventures that were designed for higher level parties and found that this was a much easier way to address the party's optimization.
Use milestone leveling: In order to keep the xp from going crazy let the group know you are using milestone leveling. Where the group automatically levels once they reach certain points in an adventure. In this way it doesn't matter how much xp encounters would normally be worth your group will just level at a consistent rate. PFS does this where each adventure you complete is worth half a point and a level costs so many points depending on how fast or slow you wish to level your character.
The biggest thing you can do is to take the time to understand a character's build. Unless you're just running a one-shot adventure knowledge is your best weapon. There are over-optimized characters and there are cheaters. I've seen lots of high level characters like you're describing as well, and more times then not its the result of willful misapplication of spells, equipment and/or abilities. Where they are stacking things that explicitly can't be stacked.
on a final note
Mage's Disjunction?
I've never seen this spell be a problem. If the party wants to use it against enemies then that's cool, since in the end they're just destroying their own loot.
| Archimedes The Great |
over-optimized is the key word here. This is going to be something that is not correctable with game mechanics or GM prep work.
If you really feel that the intent of the players is to maximize the numerical potential of the game by abusing rules and min-maxing to the extreme, then it might just be time for a discussion.
Before simply asking or telling them "Ya'll need to change up these shenanigans". Try and explain to them in a way that is understandable at a human level, and one that can be empathized with.
1) Even though you're the GM, it isn't your job to cater to every last whim of the players. You enjoy playing the game too, and put in a lot of work to just have encounter dismissed.
2) Let them know that you understand the desire to be proficient in the game and that the goal for the party ultimately should be victory, but also share that challenge and failure are both equally important aspects of the game. What great story has no adversity? Without consequence and the important role of luck via dice, the story telling element becomes greatly reduced.
3) Share with them that while their research and efforts in constructing powerful characters is impressive, it is causing balancing issues with he game. Things that drastically narrow the line between effortlessly easy and an oppressively guaranteed TPK, particularly in regards to the the other player characters at the table.
I hope this isn't really the predicament that you're in, and if so i hope ya'll are able to clear it up. honestly PFS has proved to be a difficult thing for me to embrace, because some people's refusal to compromise and understand each other. I know this mentality is also something that drives LOTS of people away from exploring the game through an existing community.
ryric
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
|
Are you only running PFS high level modules or are you simply running a "PFS legal only" home game? In the first case I'm not sure how much you can do. If the second, here's some advice for high level play, especially for optimized PCs:
Hordes of lower-level foes can still be a threat simply due to nat-20 fishing. Imagine a "boss" enemy backed up by 10 or so archers. An 11th level archer with Rapid Shot and Manyshot is getting 4 attack rolls a round, so 10 of them should see a couple nat-20s or so every round. Each shot might only do 15 damage or so, but that adds up quick.
You can use monsters with touch attacks. Try specters with Spring Attack so they can float into and out of walls. High level alchemist NPCs with force bombs would work well too.
Make your plotlines impossible. When I'm designing adventures for level 15+, I don't build in a solution. In fact, I think of all the ways that the adventure can be solved and try to inhibit those. The players will think of a way I didn't consider.
On the other hand, don't do these things all the time. A lot of the fun at high levels is getting the fancy powerful toys and you want to let your players use them.
If you truly want to play a jerk GM card you can always use a mirror of opposition and see how it goes. Double points if you roll a die behind the screen at the start of the battle and tell the players that if you rolled even they are playing the copies, odd they are playing their PCs with you controlling the other group. (Don't really do that)
YogoZuno
|
That's going to be hard since PFS doesn't go to high level
Not at all true...PFS Scenarios these days actually range up to level 15-ish for Seeker content, and you've long been able to use sanctioned modules (i.e. most modules and APs) to get to level 20 in PFS.
and if you're a PFS DM you pretty much aren't allowed to make modifications to the senarios.
This bit is at least true. You CAN adjust some things to player circumstances, but you can't wholesale rewrite enemies or tactics.
| DM Livgin |
1) Quantity or enemies. If they can kill a dragon in a single round; have them fight 3 dragons. discount the enemies that will die in the first volley from your CR budget.
2) Save or suck effects. Effects that hinder character are a great way to adjust difficulty. Having this an environmental effect means the enemy is not spending actions activating it, and it really rewards the characters for being high powered (if they can kill an enemy in 1 round instead of 2, that is only one round in the poison gas). Characters will also spend action dealing with these effects.
3) Accept that high level is an OMG rocket tag race. As long as the group has access to high level restorations, use some rocket tag enemies.
4) Add secondary objectives to fights. Escort missions, timed events, and steal the macguffin encounters help split the players focus.
Set
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
they like to calling or Summoner many creatures,and other have Animal Companions、Familiars、Eidolon、Phantoms to have many actions,how to deal with so many creatures?is hard to Designing Encounters for so many creatures for me
Random thoughts;
Set up a magical trap that spams greater dispel magic or banishment on targets in the squares the PCs and their summons are going to occupy, and that will cut down on the number of summoned monsters and minions (and buffs).
Use smaller than normal 'big' bosses, and put the 'big' end-fights in hard to reach areas and tightly confined spaces, so that even medium sized PCs have to squeeze to get to them, and those Large sized animal companions (and summons) are out of luck. Judicious use of dungeon terrain, like pillars cluttering up every other square, might also be helpful to prevent flanking, in addition to limiting each fight to a certain number of characters of only Medium or smaller (as they jockey for position). Bear in mind that summoned monsters and animal companions are particularly likely to accidentally block martial PCs from getting into an optimal position (or even getting *to* the enemy!), and that only needs to happen once or twice before the summoners and druids are told to keep their critters back until the front-liners have gotten into the fray (which means holding back on the first round / delaying their initiative, which may handicap them all the rest of the combat).
Have an encounter in an extreme environment, like deep underwater, where some eidolons, animal companions, summons, etc. can't function. Got enough water breathing for everyone? A fight on the astral plane, where your Int score determines your ability to get around, is going to be a weird one for an animal companion, as well.
Long treks through extreme environments (heat, or cold, or areas of magical radiation, or filled with acidic gases or hip deep in corrosive or piranha-filled water, just don't use poison gas, it's too much of a pain in the butt to adjudicate on a dozen PCs and minions...) can also weed out the undesirables, and force the party to pick and choose which among their army of minions they are willing to expend resources on to bring along to this particular fight (because you might not have enough resist whatever spells to cover all of the PCs, their familiars, their animal companions, eidolons, planar bound cohorts, phantoms, etc.).
Some minions are more or less willing or able to deal with certain threats. Some undead have the 'unnatural aura' that repels animals, for instance. Some *places* could have a similar aura, built-in, due to a haunting, and the animal companions, at least, may have to wait outside and guard the horses or whatever. Forbiddance spells could similarly be used to bar summoning creatures of the wrong alignment, and damage intruders (and the more they bring, the more healing they have to 'waste' to bring them all back up to fighting trim). While you can't have an area of forbiddance inside another area of forbiddance, you can darn sure put on area after another after another on the trek to the final battle, whittling away at them each time they enter a new one.
Go the other direction, give all those minions something to do! Have the enemy be like an ankheg mini-kaiju or giant boulder-tossing xorn, burrowing or phasing in all over the battlefield and throwing some ranged attack at it's location, and then popping away. Only by spreading out across the huge battlefield can they have someone near enough to each surprise appearance to get a hit in before the enemy pops away again, like some evil acid-spitting / rock-throwing game of whack-a-mole. You know how big the party is and how many minions they are bringing, so make the encounter area big enough (and the monster fast enough) that they have to spread out to cover the whole area (and if they don't cover an area, or run like Scoobies from spot to spot, abandoning some areas of the room and leaving it undefended, the beastie can pop up there are pummel them without the melees and minions being able to retaliate at all). They might be glad they brought (or can summon) enough minions to cover the field.
Remember that the object isn't to beat them, or to punish them for using their class abilities, but to challenge them, and entertain them (and yourself!). As GM, you can arbitrarily 'win' at any time, by just throwing a dozen tarrasques at them as a palette cleanser. Try to make sure that everyone is having fun. If they want to steamroller their way through some encounters, let them steamroller some encounters to scratch that itch, before opening up the throttle. It can even be explained in game in a comic-book-y way, by saying that the big bad was testing them and 'getting their measure' and figuring out what they were capable of, and that's why the big fight at the end is so specifically designed to whittle away their many minions, because the true threat set them up to show off at the beginning and prepared for their common tactics. (Even if s/he had to create a tailored demiplane to do so!)