I'm using an online translator to write in English. Expect errors in English grammar, maybe.
Half-Orc 1° Free-Style Fighter / 19° Investigator (Empiricist)
STR 16 (+2)
DES 12
COS 14
INT 16
SAG 12
CAR 8
- Alternate Racial Traits: Overlooked Mastermind (replaces intimidating, orc ferocity, and weapon familiarity).
- Traits: Student of Phylosophy, Reactionary
Feats:
1° - Power Attack, Martial Flexibility (Dedicated Adversary usually)
3° - Intimidating Prowess
5° - Extra Investigator Talent (Quick Study)
7° - Cornugon Smash
9° - Hurtful
11° - Combat Expertise
13° - Lunge
15° - Iron Will
17° - Extra Investigator Talent (Alchemist Discovery: Eternal Potion)
19° - Fortified Armor Training
Investigator Talents:
4° - Alchemist Discovery: Mutagen
5° - Quick Study
6° - Underworld Inspiration
8° - Sickening Offensive
10° - Combat Inspiration
12° - Alchemist Discovery: Infusion
14° - Tenacious Inspiration
16° - Alchemist Discovery: Extend Potion
17° - Alchemist Discovery: Eternal Potion
18° - Blinding Strike
20° - Alchemist Discovery: Elixir of Life
I was looking for a character. It seemed to be too much weight to the investigator, it seemed sub-optimal enough.
However, it has the extracts. And in the formulas there were the various spells of polymorph. Now I had only to evaluate how I behaved with the action economy.
En did not seem enough, I had a look at the talented barrow brawler. It is common to choose a DIP for the class.
So I chose the Free-Style Fighter, with its Martial Flexibility usable for one minute 4 times a day. YEAH. Well, also martial weapon proficiency and heavy armor, my dexterity would never have risen beyond 12...
The feat Dedicated Adversary on Martial Flexibility is fantastic, but Furious Focus and Cleave can certainly help.
The choice of race was particular: I was attracted to both the human and the half-elf, but the half orc gave me the best mental image. And then the alternative racial trait was right for me.
Student of Phylosophy It gives to me two valid tools to act as the face of the group.
From 1° to 4° level, this investigator can use his first round for:
Standard Action - Drink an extract (like Long Arm or Shield) or Mutagen (for a +4 STR and -2 INT)
Move Action - Choose a combat feat.
Step - To find an ideal position within 5 feet.
At the 5th (4th of the investigator) I get the Studied Combat. The Move Action consumes me, I know I try to work around with.
Studied Strike is interesting to give him the final blow.
In the same level, I can use the 2nd level, pointing to Alter Self, turning into a Troglodyte (Claw 1d4, Claw 1d4, Bite 1d4) or in an Adlet (attack with the weapon and bite 1d6)
At the 8th (7th from Investigator) I get the 3rd level extracts. Oh boy. Monstrous Physique I give me the Deathsnatcher Whenever I hit one of these attacks using the power attack, Sickening Offensive and Cornugon Smash are activated. To demoralize the enemy I have Intimidating Prowness and Underworld Inspiration, I know I should not have to give the Shaken condition to my opponent.
- Shaken + Sickned = -4 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, ability checks, -2 damage rolls.
From here on, the choice of investigator talents and the regular feat went to sentiment. Combat Expertise allows me to have the various improved versions of the combat maneuvers thanks to Martial Flexibility, or to adapt to enemies normally immune to my attacks (like Swarm against Rat Catcher talent).
The equipment well, it depends on the campaign itself. Starting as Free-Style Fighter give me 175 Gp, not bad against the 105 gp from Investigator 1° level.
Scale + Greatsword + other stuff is a good deal (maybe the 20 feet movement could be a problem, so a Lamellar could be better for the start).
Now I was thinking of that, with Monstrous Physique the equip will meld on me...but my weapon? I should check again the guide and the polymorph rules later.
I would like to know your opinion if the build can be improved from the point of view of the choice of talents.
Oh yeah. I took it very late. At the beginning I do not have enough extract to distribute around, so I gave priority to other options before considering Infusion.
I think Investigator is a very dip-friendly class, and Brawler (or in this case Freestyle-Fighter) is about the best class to dip into. I made a character very similar to this, it's great.
A few things I'd change:
1. You don't really need power attack at level 1, you can probably 1-shot most enemies without it, so all it's doing is lowering your attack roll. I'd swap Intimidating Prowess and Power Attack (this also has the nice feel of starting the game with Overlooked Mastermind and Intimidating Prowess to compliment each other).
Regarding Feats:
- Combat Expertise is not a great feat. If you're doing it for Martial Flexibility I'd suggest DIRTY FIGHTING instead.
- Iron will is good, but if you need it you'll probably want it earlier.
- Fortified Armour Training can probably be skipped. You should be able to buy Heavy Fortification armour by that point.
Regarding Discoveries:
- Regarding Discoveries
- Actually they look pretty solid. I have others I like, but I can't deny that there's some good synergy there. I would probably take Infusion a bit earlier, but you are trying to get a lot in there.
I had chosen Power Attack at the 1st level to use it with Martial Flexiblity with Furious Focus or Cleave. Swapping it with Intimidating Prowess can be valid as long as I use Dedicated Adversary with Martial Flexibility.
For Dirty Fighting I approve, much better.
Iron Will and Fortified Armor Training were talents thrown there, I did not know what to choose honestly.
I'm not choosing early infusion because I do not have enough extracts to distribute at the beginning, so I prefer to keep them for me up to medium levels.
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Consider carrying a reach weapon in addition to, or instead of, the greatsword. The lucerne hammer is a good choice. A reach weapon will often give you extra attack(s), which is much better than the slightly higher damage of the greatsword.
Consider taking the Combat Reflexes feat, which gives you one additional AoO.
Consider the tactic of stopping 15' from the foe and then spending your standard action on something besides a weapon attack. If the foe wants to attack you up close then you probably get the weapon attack you didn't take during your turn. Like this.
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Some good news... your equipment does not meld into you when you use Montrous Physique. Whether or not that happens depends on the type of creature you are turning into.
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body.
Monstrous humanoid is not on that list, so you keep all your stuff. Which means you keep your armor bonus, your weapons, and everything else, and you can basically do anything you could normally, but as a gargoyle (or whatever).
I've run an Investigator that liked to monster out, and it was an incredibly fun character. Since I was dex-based, I tended to turn into a Charda for 5 natural attacks and a +2 size bonus to DEX. I recommend picking up a Monstrification Staff, provided you've got a good enough UMD, as it will save your extract slots for something other than monstrous physique.
Make use of your 10 min/level and hour/level buffs. Investigators have many extracts with long durations, and if you're entering a dungeon or area where you know you'll be fighting, you can really buff up. Barkskin, false life, see invisibility, resinous skin, heroism (preferably through alchemical allocation), resist energy, clay skin, stoneskin, investigative mind, echolocation... there are more. The alchemist formulae list is amazing for self-buffs.
If you do decide to go weapon-based instead of natural attacks, look at the infuse self spell/formula. 10 min/level size bonus to STR (or DEX or CON, whichever you want), plus a little energy resistance. You don't get the natural armor boost that monstrous physique gives, but I'm not entirely sure that stacks with the natural armor bonus from the mutagen. Either stack with barkskin, though.
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* The build is 22 point-buy. ...I assume Cha was supposed to be a 7?
* Use Magda Luckbender's idea of a reach-weapon, but recommend a bardiche, or a fauchard in conjunction with an Opalescent White Pyramid ioun stone, for their greater threat ranges. Plodding along in full-plate, you need all the reach you can get.
* If you think you're going to need Iron Will in a martial build, don't wait until 15th level to take it -- because if you were right, it wouldn't survive that long without it.
* Delay Power Attack until after you have a magic weapon and considerable buffing capacity. BAB0s shouldn't be taking it at 1st level
Oh! I'm afraid I'll have to activate the notifications, I did not realize that other answers had arrived on my post!.
I was focused on the other post of Warpriest, but it seems that there will already be one in the group and I preferred this as the first choice for the group for which I will participate on Wednesday.
it's a well-established group, we like to experiment with the builds we do find.
We'll play this Wednesday the Shattered Star AP (actually we are starting again where we were last, we have the chance to make new PCs for the level 8th and with 33.000 GPs of equip).
- Magda Luckbender
Hi again! I'm not sure whether to apply reach build for this character, I'd like to focus on natural attacks thanks to extracts from Monstrous Physique, also in order not to fight the loot with the player focused on two-handed weapons.
Starting from a high enough level I can afford to focus on natural attacks, and with the extracts get the attack pounce and other interesting stuff.
However, now that you make me think, I can always use Combat Reflexes due to the size of the new shapes, but I am a little tight with the talents (although the dip with the Brawler leaves me enough space to decide the important ones on the moment during the first round of initiative).
Of course, I can always continue to use weapons in those new forms, but if I'm not mistaken, the size of my weapons does not change with my new form (if different from medium), while for my magical equipment worn it works regularly.
- Ferious Thune
Good to know!
I am not entirely convinced to spend that amount for the Monstrification Staff, it seems to me a short-term expense.
I will instead focus on the strength to use it with Intimidating Prowess, Serpent Runner, Underworld Inspiration and Cornugon Smash to make it perfectly valid for debuffing whenever is possible, along with Sickening Offensive. Ah, Cornugon Smash I'll add it with Martial Flexibility (not always is possibile to use Cornugon, so it will not be on the core feats).
For the extracts I will make me a note of how to allocate my resources so that I will remain ready to fight whenever there is need.
- Slim Jim
Uh...no, is 27 PB. My mistake. Wis is 10, not 12. Well according to this site ofc. Nobody will care.
For the rest I will focus on the natural attacks (so probably my purchase will be Amulet of Mighy Fist), leaving two-handed weapons with or without reach to the Fighter of my party.
For Iron Will I have to see if I find the space to place it in the build, otherwise I'll spend a little more on the mantle of the resistance, or do without the feat with Fate's Favored + Sacred Tattoo. But the latter uses my Overlooked Mastermind*, but at these levels I already have a high value to demoralize the enemy. Maybe i can play with Human race. I'll think about it.
* Overlooked Mastermind: Some half-orcs use half-orcs’ brutish stereotypes to their advantage, causing others to underestimate their intelligence and scheming. Such half-orcs gain a +2 racial bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive checks. This bonus increases to +4 against other humanoids. They also receive a +2 racial bonus on Bluff checks to feign ignorance and Sense Motive checks to intercept secret messages, and this stacks with the above bonus. This racial trait replaces intimidating, orc ferocity, and weapon familiarity. Source PZO9280
- PCScipio
Maybe, but even If I lose initiative I can't use AoO while i'm Flat-footed. Wait, there is an exception with Combat Reflexes? Cool.
Meanwhile, here the updated version on Pathbuilder of the Half-Orc Investigator! (Most probable I'll continue to modify during the night)
Detective Taglar
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Ferious ThuneGood to know!
I am not entirely convinced to spend that amount for the Monstrification Staff, it seems to me a short-term expense.
I will instead focus on the strength to use it with Intimidating Prowess, Serpent Runner, Underworld Inspiration and Cornugon Smash to make it perfectly valid for debuffing whenever is possible, along with Sickening Offensive. Ah, Cornugon Smash I'll add it with Martial Flexibility (not always is possibile to use Cornugon, so it will not be on the core feats).For the extracts I will make me a note of how to allocate my resources so that I will remain ready to fight whenever there is need.
The idea behind the Monstrification Staff is that it allows you to use your 3rd level extracts for something other than monstrous physique. So compare the cost (12,000gp, 6,000 if someone is crafting) to the cost of 3 3rd level Born Beads (9,000 gp each, or 27,000gp, 13,500 if someone is crafting).
Granted, the major potential weakness is in recharging the staff. Since you're in an AP, you may not always have time to recharge it fully before the next adventuring day. That is less of an issue in PFS where I used it, and I knew going into each scenario it would be fully charged.
It would also let you use monstrous physique prior to getting 3rd level extracts (if your UMD is good enough) if you're able to afford it before then, and a level dip makes that more likely. However, if you feel the AP will be moving at a quick pace and you'll be using monstrous physique II soon, then skip the staff, by all means. Keep in mind, though, you won't get 4th level extracts until 11th level, and you'll only have 2 of them. Sometimes you won't want to be a large creature, so monstrous physique will remain useful for several levels after that. Look at gargoyle or popobala as monstrous humanoids you can turn into with the level 3 monstrous physique that have lots of attacks, high damage attacks, and fly speeds.
EDIT: The build in general looks fine, though. The only things that stand out are that Vital Strike will be really underwhelming at 19th level, and are you taking Improved Natural Attack for your half-orc bite attack? I don't think you can take it for an attack for a creature you polymorph into under the normal rules. And most things you'll choose to polymorph into will have a better bite attack than the half-orc one anyway.
Ah, Vital Strike.
Actually I was embarrassed about what to throw at that level, but the AP Shattered Star end at the 17th level. So, it's there just to throw something in between.
For Improved Natural Attack I should first ask for an opinion on the game master, since I am mainly taking it for the "Claws" of the creature of which I take the form. The "Tooty" alternate racial trait in any case I will lose it when I use Monstrous Physique. Otherwise, I'll pick something else.
For the choice of monstrous humanoid I chose this one:
Deathsnatcher
In case I finished the 3rd level extracts, I will use alter self with this creature:
Troglodyte
Ah, for the Monstrification Staff I found an alternative:
Boro Bead. I Guess they'll do the trick.
Ah, for the Monstrification Staff I found an alternative:
Boro Bead. I Guess they'll do the trick.
I think that's what Furious Thune meant when he said: "Born Beads".
He shows that the staff is better if you need to use Monstrous Physique more than once per day. This is only true if you can reliably recharge the staff (which Furious Thune did go into). It should also be mentioned that the Boro Bead has potentially other benefits, as it can restore a different extract if needed. Personally I think you'll be fine with Boro Beads, and since they're something you'll likely want anyway that's the way I'd go.
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Oh, hah. Autocorrect got me, I guess. Boro Beads may be the better solution depending on how the AP goes. They're certainly more versatile, and if you don't mind the cost, well worth having.
Deathsnatcher looks great. I don't have Bestiary 6, so I hadn't run across it yet. And yeah, Troglodyte is basically the answer for alter self. I liked to roleplay that even though I didn't get the stench ability, my character still wasn't pleasant to be around while he was a troglodyte.
So, here we are again.
I re-evaluated a very important aspect of the investigator: Alchemical Allocation.
I have never played an alchemist before, I did not know of its potential.
I removed the level from Brawler, renounce to Martial Flexibility. It was tough, but I'm sure that if I really need Martial Flexibility, I could put the "Training" enhancement inside the Amulet of Mighty Fist, choosing "Barroom Brawler" as a feat.
Even if for now, 4000 GP are used to give me an enhancement + 1 to my natural attacks (so to consider them magical). But I'm ok like that.
Now, Alchemical Allocation allows me to reuse some very interesting potions. And with "Enhance Potion" and "Extend Potion" are discoveries available for the investigator, they help a lot (like Barkskin, Heroism, Magic Circle Against Evil). Also because I have not seen other methods to increase the duration of my extracts, and to be able to use potions from "other lists of spells" without wasting them, it seemed like a really tasty opportunity.
Meanwhile, a couple of calculations!
As I said before, I'll have to play Shattered Star, starting at the 8th level with 33,000 GPs.
16,000 GP have invested in the Belt of Strenght + 4, reaching 24 Strenght. With the mutagen and monstrous Psysique, I arrive at 30 Strenght (+10!).
- My To-hit is: +10 (STR) +6 (Bab) +1 (Amulet) +4 (Studied Combat) +2 (Heroism, ofc) -2 (Power Attack) = +21. Yay (and with Deathsnatcher all attacks are primary).
Cornugon Smash: 8 (Ranks) +10 (STR) +2 (Heroism) +2 (Serpent Runner) -1 (CHA) = +21 to Demoralize / Shaken the enemy. woo-ooh!
And every time I hit my target, it suffers the effect of Sickened for 1 round.
So Shaken + Sickened = -4 attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, 4 ability checks and -2 Damage rolls.
To offset the -2 intelligence of the mutagen, I spent 4,000 for headband +2. Also because it does not seem to me that there is a magic object that increases both strength and intelligence together, perhaps saving money.
For my saving throw, I feel pretty comfortable with Magic Circle Against Evil (duration 10 min / lv), at least for the most dangerous effects I'm protected! There are plenty of potions on which to get your hands, tomorrow I will make a precise list (also because I advance 2,900 GP to spend, I took other items than those above).
There was only one doubt, after which it seems to me that the build is ready.
Is discovery Infusion very important or can I safely avoid it?
Is discovery Infusion very important or can I safely avoid it?
Do you want to buff your allies?
If "yes" then Infusion is very important. There are other ways to do it, but for 1 discovery this is the best group buffing you'll get.
If "no" then don't bother.
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@OP: With that horrendous high Strength your character will have very powerful melee attacks. What have you done to maximize the number of attacks you can make each round?
Your focus on natural attacks makes you highly dependent on a full attack. What will you do when you can't full attack, which will often happen?
Have you considered carrying a reach weapon, to get those free round 1 AoOs, which you can then (free action) drop once you are in position to full attack? Such as an option has little or no cost yet carries a substantial benefit.
Do you have a plan in place to avoid full attacks from other scary natural attack foes, or will you just go toe-to-toe with them? Fortunately for you Paizo foes hardly ever take tactical actions to prevent incoming full attacks, but know that it's not hard to do. I.e. Using appropriate mobile tactics it's possible to make a natural attacker look downright foolish by never letting them land a full attack. Foes in published adventures rarely use these tactics and your GM probably doesn't either. So maybe don't worry about it, unless I happen to your GM ... ;-)
Yeah honestly alchemical allocation is the bomb :) The fact you can use any potion from any spellcaster is just awesome. I also bumped up UMD to use wands reliably.
I honestly skipped infusion mainly because you have so few spells it's better to just self buff..but that's me.
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hi!
- Magda Luckbender
It is currently an aspect that I have not fully optimized. When I am not transformed with Alter-Self or Monstrous Physique for natural attacks I use as a weapon "Cold-Iron Brass-Knuckles", as it does not seem to interfere with the use of the extracts (that being no spells do not require concentration since I am holding brass knuckles) or any skill that requires precision. In session the brass knuckles for flavor are a series of rings with very hard jewels.
Thanks to Monster Physique 2 I get "Pounce", so I can execute a full attack in charge. Before that I use the first round for the buff or take a favorable position: on the other hand, if I know I'm limited to just one attack, I prefer to prepare the action to hit my opponent if he approaches (which did not work in the last 2 fights, the opponents had Reach). And from here I am reminded of your words of a reach weapon to keep in case of need. Regarding the defensive aspect there is not much to say, when I hit my opponent applies Sickening Offensive and Cornungon Smash, which thanks to Intimidating Prowess and Serpent Runner I have a very good chance to give an important debuff to my opponent ( -4 To hit, Saves, Ability Check, Skill Check and -2 Damage with both of them). I have no direct ways to prevent the full attack, fortunately we have a Paladin / Oracle of life that can give us effective treatment to the three melee of the group (although we still have Boots of the Earth to have a solid cure out of combat without use the resources of our healer).
I do not know what to say about the tactics of the monsters: every GM follows its comfort zone for how to manage the fights.
In our group we have many optimizers, including the GM itself (it has modified the AP Shattered Star with the Advanced template because we are in 5-6 players to participate, to maintain the level of challenge appropriate to our abilities).
- ekibus
I agree, at least so far I have not felt the need to share my extracts with the other members of the group.