Can you please cancel my Pathfinder Maps Subscription? Thank you so much in advance.
Hello Pigraven,
Thank you for the notification. I have canceled your Pathfinder Maps Subscription. You should soon receive an email confirming this change to your account. Do you have a reason you'd be comfortable sharing for canceling?
If you have any questions or concerns, please let us know. Thank you!
I apologize for taking so long to respond. I opened this one evening with intent to respond but promptly fell asleep, as I do best.
I am happy to share with you my reason for canceling my Maps subscription. I hope the detailed information will be useful when making decisions for this line going forward.
My decision was not based on quality. In fact, I rather enjoy the new Flip-Tiles. Instead, my decision was all about cost. It just wasn't viable to maintain a Maps subscription any longer. I'll go into more detail in case it helps. If you have any further questions, please just ask me.
1. My Flip-Tiles Urban Starter Set showed a charge of $29.74. That price reflected the 15% off I receive with the Paizo Advantage discount. It's cheaper elsewhere (more on that in a bit), but it came with a major drawback...
2. Due to the weight of the Urban Starter Set, it added an extra $11-$12 of shipping cost. In my Subscriptions section under My Account, it showed a shipping & handling fee of approximately $16.+ for the Urban Starter Set, Adventure Path #137, and Campaign Setting: Faiths of Golarion. Once you folks successfully canceled my Maps subscription (thank you, by the way), it reduced the shipping & handling cost down to about $4.83.
3. So you see, $29.74 + $12.00 = $41.74. And that's just way too much to be paying for a Flip-Tiles starter set. Now perhaps that estimate of $16.+ shipping was high, and it wouldn't really have cost that much. After all, my July order shipped with an initial charge of $12.87 for shipping & handing. That order, Order #5293565, also had the Dungeon Flip-Tiles Expansion pack, Adventure Path #132, the Flip-Mat Forest Pack, and a handful of promotional minis. But whether that $16.+ shipping & handling fee was inflated or not in the estimate for this current month's items, I don't know. It was the only number I had to go on, and an extra $12.00 to ship one thing--that already isn't a particularly good deal--was just too much to worry about.
4. As for that $29.74 price for the Urban Starter Set through your website (w/Paizo Advantage 15% off included). It's between $3.45-$5.27 cheaper to purchase it elsewhere. And that doesn't even include the shipping & handling savings. Here are the top three cheapest prices for the Urban Starter Set on other websites. It can be found cheaper at times, but for the Pre-order price from reputable companies, here are the details.
Game Nerdz: $24.47
CoolStuffInc.: $24.49
Miniature Market: $26.29
Here are those same prices with shipping & handling factored in (to my address in Ohio).
Game Nerdz: $24.47 + $3.00 Shipping = $27.47
CoolStuffInc.: $24.49 + $5.99 Flat Rate Shipping = $30.48
Miniature market: $26.99 + $5.99 Flat Rate Shipping = $32.28
So you see, even just by purchasing it elsewhere, it's cheaper--Tax Included--from one place. And only between $1-3 dollars more--Tax Included--from the other two places. For perspective's sake, if I were to order it today, straight up, using my Paizo 15% Advantage but not as part of a subscription, the Urban Starter Set would look like this:
Urban Starter Set: $29.74 + $12.00 = $41.74
That's not an estimate. That's literally what my cart shows after putting it in and going through the first two stages of checking out. That means that it likely WAS effecting my subscription service, and responsible for that huge shipping & handling fee.
And I'm sorry, but that's no kind of deal. It's just too much.
5. The same method can be applied to pretty much everything to which I'm subscribed, with the exact same results (adjusted numbers, of course).
The only exception is the Pathfinder Battles Case + Incentive. But that's working on a different discount system. While technically that's still a good deal, the slight drop in quality of the minis in the face of a slight improvement in quality from a direct competitor is a relevant issue but a discussion for a different day.
6. Those other subscriptions come with a slightly more worthy benefit than the Maps subscription. The Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, and Player Companion all have the added benefit of coming with a free copy of the PDF. Sure, if you look up my downloads, you'll see I've maybe downloaded only 25% of the available PDFs. Because I'm most of the DM in our campaigns, having the books usually will suffice. And when I need a quick reference I use another site that is great for fast searches. But it's definitely nice to own the PDF's, no doubt.
Granted, the Maps subscription still lets me print them out as PDF's. At first I thought I'd be using this often, to print out spares if I needed them. After all, when I first started playing Pathfinder so many years ago, I downloaded a big file of different Pathfinder Maps. This was before I even knew about the Paizo subscription service. I printed out the maps in as high-res as I could, and covered poster board with them, one scene on each side. Then I took it to Kinkos to have them lamented. I ended up with map boards that had no creases or anything in them--a totally flat playing surface. But after the flip-tiles came out, I soon realized I just didn't have the time, effort or the money to do this anymore. While I can't speak for anyone else, downloading the PDF flip-tiles just doesn't hold as much value in my eyes as downloading the PDF's for actual written material.
7. The benefit of having those free PDF's for Paizo's Adventure Path and Source books has been enough to outweigh the slight additional cost. While the Adventure Paths usually cost the same $17.49 to Pre-Order everywhere, the Player Companion and Campaign Setting are cheaper to Pre-Order elsewhere. For example, this month's Campaign Setting: Faiths of Golarion, costs just $15.97 at Game Nerdz, a $3.57 savings over the $19.54 I'm paying for my subscription. Meanwhile, next month's Player Companion: Wilderness Origins, is $10.47 for pre-order at Game Nerdz. And it estimates to cost me $12.74 here, a difference of $2.27, even with my Paizo Advantage factored. Again, that benefit of the free PDF's is nice. But it becomes less nice when factoring in shipping & handling charges.
8. With the $4.83 factored in to shipping for my subscription order this month, that's $2.42 added per book. So my Adventure Path total cost is $19.91, and the Faiths Of Golarion jumps to $21.96. That PDF benefit takes another hit. The shipping for Game Nerdz for the two books is a flat $3.00.
Through my Paizo Subscriptions, the two items in my order this month, Adventure Path #137 and the Faiths of Golarion, combine for a total--shipping included--of $41.86. The same two items through Game Nerdz costs $36.44. That's a savings of $5.62 through Game Nerdz. Another way to look at is my Paizo Advantage basically gets me the two PDF's for a combined $5.62. In my opinion, it's worth it. But that's more about my peace of mind than anything else; Truthfully, for how little I use the PDF's, it's probably not worth it.
9. Speaking of those PDF's, to purchase the Adventure Path and Campaign Setting this month in PFD form, it will cost a total of $33.98. That's $7.88 cheaper than getting the printed material in-hand from our Paizo subscriptions. Of course, we subscribers get those PDF's, too. So instead of those PDF's costing a combined $5.62, it's a bit more like they cost $7.88, or $3.94 each. For the savvy shoppers that absolutely don't need the printed books, subscriptions are still the way to go. Because they get both, they break even with a PDF-only subscription at the $33.98 mark. That means they've got two printed books they can toss up on eBay to sell in mint condition. Assuming they can sell each book for more than $3.94, they not only break even with what they paid for the PDF, they've made some extra money back to put towards further reducing the cost of the PDF. For example, if they've sold both books I mentioned for a combined $18 (after eBay's cut), that's a $10.12 "profit" to help offset the cost of the $33.98 PDF purchase--a price they were willing to spend regardless. So in this case, they'd essentially be getting the PDF's they wanted for a total of $23.86, or $11.93 per PDF book.
10. As I've pointed out several times, for me it's worth it for the Adventure Paths and source book subscriptions, as I do like having both mediums, print and PDF. But now when we add on those inflated prices for the Urban Starter Set, and things change...
11. If we add the Urban Starter Set to Adventure Path #137 and Faiths Of Golarion through the Paizo subscription process, it would have cost me an estimated $83.60. That's the $66.77 for the 3 products themselves (including the 15% savings), and the estimated $16.83 total for shipping. The same 3 items pre-ordered from Game Nerdz? $60.91. And that includes the same $3.00 flat rate shipping for all three items. So right there that's a savings of $22.69 on everything. Granted, that doesn't include PDF's through Game Nerdz. But if I really wanted to, I could take that $22.69 savings and buy the two relevant PDF's, and be out just $11.29. Obviously that's dumb. But it's a good marker at exactly how overpriced the Urban Starter Set is through this website.
12. And that doesn't even include the discount off shipping. Paizo offers me $10 off shipping of any purchase of $100 or more. But it's so rare to be able to take advantage of that offer. With Campaign Books, Player Companions, Pathfinder Modules, and RPG Main books not always getting a monthly release, I often fall short of the $100.00 on my subscriptions alone. So it's basically meaningless. When my orders do come out close to $100., it sometimes becomes beneficial to add things to our side-cart. But last time I tried doing this, it broke my order in two, and charged me shipping as if they were separate orders. This was remedied with the efforts of Paizo's amazing customer service. But I've tried a couple times now, and it just seems to be a hassle.
13. Furthermore, while the Paizo Advantage of 15% off some products is nice, most of the things on this site are actually still cheaper elsewhere, even after our discount. And even for the things that are cheaper here, or at least pretty close, it's often not enough once shipping costs is factored in. And that even includes the $10 off that Paizo pays if we do manage to hit the $100 mark. It's at the point where I more or less feel the only real thing worth purchasing is the Paizo convention miniatures, and a few other miniatures when I can't find them elsewhere.
14. And about those shipping costs... The three other online shops I mentioned are pretty great with their shipping. Both CoolStuffInc. and Miniature Market offer free shipping on any order $100 or more. During months where there is maybe $75-$85 worth of Paizo material in my Subscriptions, I get jealous of those that don't need PDF's at all. For them, adding something they really want and in order to reach the century mark--even another Paizo product--makes hitting that $100.00 mark worth it. Meanwhile, over here with my Pathfinder Advantage, all the same action does for me is add another item for which I have to worry about weight.
The real gem, though is Game Nerdz. Their free shipping offer starts on orders of $75.00 or more. So in our previous example, with Urban Starter Set, Adventure Path #137, and Faiths of Golarion, the total (minus $3.00 shipping) is $57.91. From there we need just $17.09 to escape that small $3.00 shipping charge. And while spending that $17.09 is basically spending more to save little, it matters. Remember, the same three printed items from Paizo costs $83.60. So right there we've essentially saved $8.60 assuming we hit the $75.00 threshold exactly. But that $17.09 to get us there had to be used on something. So keeping it in the Paizo family, how about we add Pathfinder Module: Cradle Of Night to our bounty? That's $17.47 on Game Nerdz.
So we end up with a haul that looks like this:
Paizo Subscriptions:
Item 1-->Flip-Tiles: Urban Starter Set = $29.74
Item 2-->Pathfinder Adventure Path = $17.49
Item 3-->Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Faiths of Golarion = $19.54
Pre-Shipping Total: $66.77
--Shipping = $16.83
Post Shipping Total: $83.60
Game Nerdz:
Item 1-->Flip-Tiles: Urban Starter Set = $24.47
Item 2-->Pathfinder Adventure Path = $17.49
Item 3-->Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Faiths of Golarion = $15.97
Item 4-->Pathfinder Module: Cradle Of Night = $17.49
Pre-Shipping Total: $75.38
--Shipping = Free
Post Shipping Total: $75.38
Sure, we don't get the PDF's at Game Nerdz. But we do get an extra Paizo product!
And if we felt like adding that Cradle of Night Module to our order? That's $24.21 more. But added pre-shipping, of course. So that total becomes $90.98, before shipping. We still laughably fall short of the $100.00 mark by $9.02, but the added weight from the book likely adds an extra $2.01 in shipping. (Based on an old order of only an Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, and Player Companion, which added $6.93 shipping, instead of the $4.83 this month for two of those books, an increase of $2.01). In other words, we now add $26.22 in shipping to that $90.98 store total.
To get the same four items through our Paizo subscriptions to our door here in Ohio, that's $117.20, including the now outrageous shipping cost of $26.22.
So...$75.38 through Game Nerdz vs. $117.20 through Paizo.
In other words, we'd be paying an extra $41.82
And hey, if the folks paying this type of money are using both the Map Tile and material book PDF's just as much as they are the printed products, then perhaps this is a good deal. But for me--at least regarding the Urban Starter Set, that's just too much.
15. I'm sorry for such a long answer, but I wanted to provide enough data for it to be useful in case your question was intended to gather data to be used for future decision-making. Obviously it can be summed up that the Urban Starter Set just isn't a good deal, financially. But perhaps having it broken down like that can help you better understand my thought process.
16. I can honestly say without a shadow of a doubt that Paizo shipping charges have completely driven me away from purchasing non-subscription single items unless they are website exclusives or a miniature I can't find anywhere else. Repeatedly.
17. I've seen other people complain about it, or question it, and sometimes the answers, when given, are similar. Sometimes it's about ads in books, that effect the class of shipping, and what qualifies. I don't know. I just know that right now if I finish filling out my cart to buy the Urban Starter Set and nothing else, it will cost me $12.00 in shipping. The same product can be had for $3.00 shipping from at least one, and a more typical $6.00 Flat Rate shipping from the others.
18. If you're wondering whether it matters, it does. Paizo is about to make a seismic shift towards another game format. After finally getting a chance to run playtests with my different groups, the best I can say is most of us seem to be on the fence about that format. While the meat of the official system upon release will be the ultimate driving factor whether we stay with Paizo and embrace PF2, it won't be the only one. Everything matters at this point.
Even if we don't stick around, there are still some nice draws to Paizo products. But also concern. Miniatures, for one, is a big deal for me and many at my table. Should we ultimately not stick with PF2, at the very least I would hope to continue such a subscription. Whatever system we gravitate towards, I like the look of Paizo creatures. But there have been many issues lately in that department. Unanswered questions about Sizes, or lack thereof, and about what to expect for PF2, long absences between blogs--again, now over a month since the last Blog post--and what surprisingly, shockingly, appears to be the first time the Battles line has fallen behind a direct competitor in actual miniature quality. Everything matters at this point.
19. So yes, my super long answer to such a simple question. But I do hope it helps. One thing I love about this company is even when I'm unsure about so many things, the customer service folks are always some the nicest and most helpful around.