One of my players in a Playtest session I'm running really likes Diablo and he wants to make a Barbarian that wields two one-handed axes like his character in that game. However, I've looked through the class and it seems like it doesn't have anything that supports a playstyle other than a big, two-handed weapon. Am I missing something? I thought this modular class design was the perfect opportunity to give martial classes more freedom in how they want to fight, but if a Barbarian doesn't have any feats that let him be effective with two-weapon fighting that's very disappointing.
In current Playtest documents (1.5), I don't think there are Pure Barb options that support dual wield, but there IS a way to do it ... just not at level 1.
It involves burning class feat slots into Multiclass feats into a class that DOES support dual wield, such as Fighter. (I think Ranger might also work, but I haven't looked at it in depth yet.)
On the flip side, if dual wield is more important, he could play a Fighter, and multiclass into Barb.
imo barbarian doesn't really have all that many "weapon feats" either way.
it's perfectly easy to make one and focus on feats that augment rage and his powers rather than weapons, and then he can use dual weapons pretty effectively.
if he does want a dual specific feat, i would probably go for a fighter multi to get double slice at level 4, that's not too far off.
Your player could always go Giant Totem and wield a Large battle axe and Large hatchet. Use the battle axe for their first attack and the hatchet for their secondary and tertiary attacks so they get the reduced penalties from the agile property. As a bonus they have a thrown weapon in-hand in case they need to hit something that's a bit outside of their movement range. They'll probably also want to multiclass ranger and grab Twin Takedown for some extra oomph.
Your player could always go Giant Totem and wield a Large battle axe and Large hatchet. Use the battle axe for their first attack and the hatchet for their secondary and tertiary attacks so they get the reduced penalties from the agile property. As a bonus they have a thrown weapon in-hand in case they need to hit something that's a bit outside of their movement range. They'll probably also want to multiclass ranger and grab Twin Takedown for some extra oomph.
This. Though you could also do this without the Giant Totem just as well (less damage, better accuracy, AC, Reflex) and Double Slice from Fighter might be better than Twin Takedown from Ranger. Both are great, the first lets you attack twice at full accuracy (which is hype) while the latter takes less actions.
And strictly speaking you could do Double Slice with two battle axes instead of axe and hatchet but one of the attacks takes a -2, may not be worth it.
Thanks for the responses, I'll probably tell him to multiclass into Fighter then. I still find it weird that Barbarian has no options specifically for that because the berserker barbarian with two axes is a very common trope and... well, a lot of the Class Feats involve doing one single, powerful strike, and of course this is done better with a two-handed weapon. So... I thought there would be other feats that help other fighting styles for the class.
Thanks for the responses, I'll probably tell him to multiclass into Fighter then. I still find it weird that Barbarian has no options specifically for that because the berserker barbarian with two axes is a very common trope and... well, a lot of the Class Feats involve doing one single, powerful strike, and of course this is done better with a two-handed weapon. So... I thought there would be other feats that help other fighting styles for the class.
"multiclass" in pf2 is not really multiclass.
it's more like an archetype/path.
so, a barbarian/fighter is really just a barbarian with more focus on weapons.
I got a lvl 4 Goblin Dragon Totem Barb multicalssed Fighter that DWs a Longsword and a Dogslicer. It deals pretty good Damage with Double Slice. Basically his rounds are like this. Rage and Sudden Charge. Then Double Slice and whatever.
Hopefully dual wield is supported more in the final version, because having to be level 4 to really benefit from dual wield feels bad.
But with the amount of feats I think the better barbarian is actually a fighter with barbarian dedication, but I assume that with more options coming out in the final version, this might not be the case. And two-handed weapons are likely better than a dual wielding barbarian with double slice most of the time, it is pretty close like <1 DPR, assuming you have the actions available to double slice.
Your player could always go Giant Totem and wield a Large battle axe and Large hatchet. Use the battle axe for their first attack and the hatchet for their secondary and tertiary attacks so they get the reduced penalties from the agile property. As a bonus they have a thrown weapon in-hand in case they need to hit something that's a bit outside of their movement range. They'll probably also want to multiclass ranger and grab Twin Takedown for some extra oomph.
This. Though you could also do this without the Giant Totem just as well (less damage, better accuracy, AC, Reflex) and Double Slice from Fighter might be better than Twin Takedown from Ranger. Both are great, the first lets you attack twice at full accuracy (which is hype) while the latter takes less actions.
And strictly speaking you could do Double Slice with two battle axes instead of axe and hatchet but one of the attacks takes a -2, may not be worth it.
I feel like Barbarians have a lot of competition for actions and might enjoy the Twin Takedown more once they've hunted a target. But that does take more feats to do consistly.
Basically dual wielding is only effective by using the Double Slice ability.
Not even then. Because TWF no longer gives extra attacks, two-handed fighting is always superior. Under the Unchained version of the three-action system, TWF, ITWF, and GTWF let you attack with both weapons in the first, second, and third attack actions of your turn respectively. Thus, the damage/action wound up comparable, because a one-handed weapon and a light weapon together tend to deal about as much damage as a two-handed weapon. But in the Playtest, Double Slice still operates at 1 attack/action, so two-handed weapons will always deal more damage/action than TWF.
I did some math on the difference in damage. The builds requiring double slice does cost class feats so it does limit you more, and yes the damage is a bit lower than using THW, however I do feel the difference is small enough that unless you are very min/maxing the fighter/barbarian with double slice is "just" as viable for the most parts. I still worry that currently the fighters weapon proficiency is so important, but he does have lower HP and neither can use heavy armor due to the rage restriction.
DPR for Barbarians or Fighter/Barbarians THW vs TWF:
Barbarian lvl 4 (dragon totem) using great axe vs minotaur ac 18
(+4 proficiency, +1 expert weapon + 4 strength)
1st attack: 50% to hit 10% to crit
2nd attack: 30% to hit 5% to crit
3rd attack: 5% to hit 5% to crit
0.70 * (1d12+8) = 10,15 on average
0.40 * (1d12+8) = 5,8 on average
0.15 * (1d12+8) = 2,175 on average
Total damage: 18.125
Barbarian lvl 4 (dragon totem) using battleaxe and hatchet (with double slice) vs minotaur ac 18
(+4 proficiency, +1 expert weapon + 4 strength)
Double slice 50% to hit 10% to crit
3rd attack 15% to hit 5 % to crit
Fighter lvl 4 (with barbarian dedication and rager) using great axe vs minotaur ac 18
(+6 proficiency, +1 expert weapon + 4 strength)
1st attack: 50% to hit 20% to crit
2nd attack: 40% to hit 5% to crit
3rd attack: 15% to hit 5% to crit
0.90 * (1d12+7) = 12.15 on average
0.50 * (1d12+7) = 6.75 on average
0.25 * (1d12+7) = 3.375 on average
Total damage: 22.275
Fighter lvl 4 (with barbarian dedication and rager and double slice) using battle axe and hatchet vs minotaur ac 18
(+6 proficiency, +1 expert weapon + 4 strength)
Double slice 50% to hit 20% to crit
3rd attack 25% to hit 5 % to crit
