I recently was talking about my other favorite RPG, White Wolf's World of Darkness (Old version). As a casual thought, if I was going to start an oWoD PbP, would there be any interest among Paizonians? It wouldn't be any time soon I'm afraid, I am full out with projects right now, but I am just conducting an 'interest poll' if you will.
Anyone who would play something like that?
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I recently was talking about my other favorite RPG, White Wolf's World of Darkness (Old version). As a casual thought, if I was going to start an oWoD PbP, would there be any interest among Paizonians? It wouldn't be any time soon I'm afraid, I am full out with projects right now, but I am just conducting an 'interest poll' if you will.
Anyone who would play something like that?
I've recently started the initial musings of a nWoD PbP that I'll be running, but I have a fond appreciation of the classics as well and would likely sign up for an oWoD game. I have.... lots of books for it. :)
Sure; I have interest and probably Balfic does too and maybe Lorm as he loves vampire stuff; though in the current ed they totally hosed the werewolves. Balfic and I love the wolves. I have played a werewolf glasswalker and I have played a troll from the Dreaming.
sure if balanced means killing them all off; balance and WOD dont go hand in hand anyway; look at mummies; sheesh; and some of the few and other weres like werebears are omg off the charts and the werespiders are practically unkillable. Granted I dont know much about the vampires; but everyone talks like the elders are pretty much like gods.
sheesh; the bad guys like black spiral dancers and a lot of those Pentax abominations were down right terrible even if you had a whole pack behind you.
I think all the vamp wannabees just whined a lot; there were not that many werewolf players and droves of vamps so with the fan and money base goes the spoils.
*** is a homid; trickster moon, glasswalker ***
I recently was talking about my other favorite RPG, White Wolf's World of Darkness (Old version). As a casual thought, if I was going to start an oWoD PbP, would there be any interest among Paizonians? It wouldn't be any time soon I'm afraid, I am full out with projects right now, but I am just conducting an 'interest poll' if you will.
Anyone who would play something like that?
I would be interested if you allowed Demon the Fallen characters. I have all the books and its a fantasic story/system for them.
sure if balanced means killing them all off; balance and WOD dont go hand in hand anyway; look at mummies; sheesh; and some of the few and other weres like werebears are omg off the charts and the werespiders are practically unkillable. Granted I dont know much about the vampires; but everyone talks like the elders are pretty much like gods.
sheesh; the bad guys like black spiral dancers and a lot of those Pentax abominations were down right terrible even if you had a whole pack behind you.
I think all the vamp wannabees just whined a lot; there were not that many werewolf players and droves of vamps so with the fan and money base goes the spoils.
*** is a homid; trickster moon, glasswalker ***
If I, a humble lurker with little knowledge of the actual rules of the oWoD, may interject, of course the elders were godlike! They were the strongest of the vampires! Of course they were nigh-omnipotent!
Also, can we all agree that the various playable groups were balanced in their own game but if you mix them horrible horrible things happen?
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...though in the current ed they totally hosed the werewolves...
'Balanced' is the word you're looking for. They totally balanced the werewolves. ;)
*is a hardcore old Vampire player*
The OWoD Settings were compatible but not really meant to be equal. Werewolves, Vampires, Mages and what not were not created equally. That I believe was on purpose. Cross play was possible but I don't think it was intended to be the norm. Particularly not at the outset.
The new settings didn't really hose anyone they just made the games truly cross compatible.
I like some aspects of the new settings but over all I prefer the classic WoD and even though I've not played in a pbp I might be interested. Any idea of what kind of game you're planning on running?
I agree too; dont know that they were meant to play together; but we did anyways and it worked out fine; each had its ability to contribute; but in battles; some creatures really had it good; weres being near the high end; strange, but in our group; several were like pixies and pooka's; only the very young vamps who thought they were tuff were really dissappointed.
The fallen books Balic mentioned are really neat; that is a cool concept.
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I agree too; dont know that they were meant to play together; but we did anyways and it worked out fine; each had its ability to contribute; but in battles; some creatures really had it good; weres being near the high end; strange, but in our group; several were like pixies and pooka's; only the very young vamps who thought they were tuff were really dissappointed.
It typically worked out okay for us too but there is a very noticeable power gap between character types. I tend to prefer when everyone plays the the same type of creature. Or at least character types that aren't going to be at each other's throats. You can sometimes squeak by with mixed groups but IMO there is enough diversity within each sub genre of the setting that cross over chronicles are often unnecessary.
Yeah, I was a rabid oWoD, VtM player, and I have tons of those books. I did pick up the Demon and Hunter core books, but I don't have the Werewolf, Mage or Changeling books.
I was thinking if I did do this of an old-school Vampire game. In the oWoD system the different games weren't very cross-compatable, and I think that's why they did such a massive rewrite.
If I did run something it would be Vampire, either Modern of Dark Ages. I still haven't made up my mind, and I'm sure I couldn't do anything until the fall when things settle down a bit for me.
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I was a big Vampire fan (also Mage and Wraith, not so much Werewolf) and would love to get into a PBP under oWoD / VtM rules. I've played every Camarilla clan, and several of the oddballs (although I made sure to get a handle of the basics before going crazy and playing Tzimisce or Setites or whatnot).
The games did exist on completely different power scales, though.
Having played VtM for several years, I've had the most fun with oddball 'against type' characters (Nosferatu 'cleopatra' social powerhouse, Follower of Set on the path of the warrior who ran his own dojo, Tremere who considers Thaumaturgy 'a trap' and focusses instead on Dominate, etc.).
I don´t know how a PbP would work out in this case, but I would be basically interested if I have more time on my hands again (next year, most likely). Another problem would be the different time zones from Europe to the US.
We started playing V:tM very soon after the first softcover rulebook was available (without all the sabbat stuff, mind you), and had a chronicle running on and off for many years throughout the 90ies until the early 2000s. I ran a V:DA chronicle, with the Transsylvanian Chronicles, and played for a long time in a DA game (you would not want to see that totally overpowered character...). I also played Mage a few times and Werewolf as well. I storytell a once-a-year Hunter:the Reckoning chronicle still running since the game was first published. So, quite some experience (if I say so myself) and a good number of books as well - but no NWoD stuff, as I just don´t like it.
Crossing over the various games is tricky at best and not advised by the authors, IIRC - especially werewolves and vampires don´t get along well, to put it mildly, to say nothing of Hunters...
Stefan
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Crossing over the various games is tricky at best and not advised by the authors, IIRC - especially werewolves and vampires don´t get along well, to put it mildly, to say nothing of Hunters...
It's kind of funny how werewolves, hunters, changelings and many mages so terribly loathe vampires, and that there's a clan of vampires (gangrel) who admire and even emulate the lupines, and another that is quite fond of mages and still thinks of itself as a part of mage society (tremere) and a third that expresses a fascination with the fae (toreador). It's a very one-sided hate. :)
But even if there weren't game balance issues, there's the whole 'vampires are automatically unconscious for 12 hours a day' thing to get in the way of crossover campaigns. "Oh, sun's coming up. Everyone just wait here for 12 hours, I gotta sleep."
Kuei-Jin (asian vampires) are far better balanced to crossover with garou, mages and wraiths, in my experience. Unlike Kindred, the kuei-jin were designed after the introduction of garou, the underworld, the fae realms, the magic system, etc. and interact with these WoD setting elements (calling them the yin realms or the yang realms, etc.) rather than being singled out as unable to interact with the rest of the World of Darkness, like the western kindred.
Vampire works better as a standalone game, with the 'werewolves' being furry wolf-men who aren't 800 lb engines of destruction that can rip tanks open bare-handed and the mages using Sorcerer rules and not the more ST-demanding True Magick. The Giovanni would probably benefit from some sort of 'ghost' monster templates as well, since so much of their Clan's power is tied up in that, and giving them control of actual Wraiths, with the full range of wraith-ly powers, would be 'game over' for their enemies...
Well; loathe outloud maybe; hehe, but us Glasswalkers work with two vamp clans a whole lot behind the scenes and are allies at times and have non agression pacts and treaties. We also know that the Werewolf clan of Bonegnawers also work very close with some vamps and think they are kind and generous though ugly, but they keep it to themselves as we Glasswalkers do or some stupid GET of F or those like em would get all uppidty snouts and tails in the air.
so; that is at least two clans who are deep in the thick with vamps but keep it hush hush.
I dont have the time for another game, but danged if I dont love me some oWoD. Granted, I know about Zero minus One about New WoD, so what do I know?
Balance, meh, oWoD was better balanced than say, Rifts, where you could by the core books have vagabonds and glitterboys side by side in a party. Bleh.
Heck, oWoD wasn't even balanced within its own sub-sections. Ever see a Mokole warrior with a bee up its butt? It would take a full pack of werewolves to bring that down.
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Post first marriage, I began to like the second stringers (Dhampir, Dhampyr, Revenant, Kinfolk, Hedgemage, Medium, Enchanted) Strong enough to take care of themselves, but not the front lines. Heck I had a Kinfolk who ran with the wolves (so to speak) with a technocratic trenchcoat armor and contacts, specializing in fixing veil breaches.
The Dhampyr was especially fun when dealing with other supernaturals with a code of honour. Tusselled with a Werewolf once, agreed that he'd hear me out if I hit him first. Passive Joss rocks.
"Spirit of the frey, might of thor, (other funny gifts) I autohit and do 18 levels of agg damage."
*Burns three joss, makes humanity roll* "You miss. My strike, I'm tweaking your nose" *rolls and hits* "Now, as I was saying..."
It's kind of funny how werewolves, hunters, changelings and many mages so terribly loathe vampires, and that there's a clan of vampires (gangrel) who admire and even emulate the lupines, and another that is quite fond of mages and still thinks of itself as a part of mage society (tremere) and a third that expresses a fascination with the fae (toreador). It's a very one-sided hate. :)
Yeah, it is. I just thought of the strange Sabbat Bloodline of Kyasid, who were the "middle vampires" for the fae, as well. And you might see the Malkavians as being close to the fae also.
The Tremere have their origin in the mage world, as they were originally part (and are still, AFAIK) of the Ars Magica game. As mentioned already, add the Giovanni to it, and you have one clan or blood line for every other WoD game theme, with the exception of Hunters and Mummies. For the Demons, there are Sabbat blood lines IIRC, or at least dark thaumaturgic paths in that direction. The Eastern Vampires are quite a different bunch, but they also loathe the western ones.I love some nice oWoD small talk :-)
Stefan
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Yeah, it is. I just thought of the strange Sabbat Bloodline of Kyasid, who were the "middle vampires" for the fae, as well. And you might see the Malkavians as being close to the fae also.
The Tremere have their origin in the mage world, as they were originally part (and are still, AFAIK) of the Ars Magica game. As mentioned already, add the Giovanni to it, and you have one clan or blood line for every other WoD game theme, with the exception of Hunters and Mummies. For the Demons, there are Sabbat blood lines IIRC, or at least dark thaumaturgic paths in that direction. The Eastern Vampires are quite a different bunch, but they also loathe the western ones.I love some nice oWoD small talk :-)
Stefan
Also the Lost Paths book for mage (IIRC) had a secret society of Tremere heritics who survived the conversion from house to clan.
sure if balanced means killing them all off; balance and WOD dont go hand in hand anyway; look at mummies; sheesh;
Just curious, i had the mummy book but never used it in a game. Were they more or less powerful than other stuff?
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Just curious, i had the mummy book but never used it in a game. Were they more or less powerful than other stuff?sure if balanced means killing them all off; balance and WOD dont go hand in hand anyway; look at mummies; sheesh;
Kind of like Mages. Less powerful unless you had a lot of time to plan and prepare. Also the 'virtually unkillable' bit helped.
As far as I know; Mummies were named; there were only like 8 or 9 of them or some such and they could effect things on a global scale and could do things much like in the movie with Brandon Fraser but on a huge scale from what I remember; but has been a long time since I read it.
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Just curious, i had the mummy book but never used it in a game. Were they more or less powerful than other stuff?
The ones who could make amulets and such were my favorite, and weren't significantly more powerful than a Sorcerer who used Alchemy or Enchantment. Yeah, hard to kill, but then again, so were many of the supernaturals (Werewolf, blow a rage and get a scar instead of dying, Vampires going into torpor instead of dying from non-aggravated damage, Wraiths getting dorked over by Spectres instead of suffering total Oblivion, etc.).
The first edition Mummy book was kinda wonky, but the later edition worked nicely alongside Sorcerer / Hedge Magic.
There were several Mummy books, two made as one of those generic WoD sourcebooks (1st and 2nd Ed), much like the sorcerer book, and one line where Mummies were another supernatural breed made playable, which had only two books published instead of a whole line. The mummies in the original sourcebooks were meant as NPCs only, AFAICT.
Stefan
Also the Lost Paths book for mage (IIRC) had a secret society of Tremere heritics who survived the conversion from house to clan.
Hm... couldn´t find that reference at a glance, but maybe it is hidden in this book somewhere. Could you perhaps try to find that reference? I´m a long time Tremere fan, and would like any info about these bastards :-)
Stefan
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Nwod is vaguely like a bad mix of dndish rules and owod without any backstory or almost certanty to it.
A lot of people like it for those reasons. But they are precisely the reasons I just can't ever get into it. Well that and everything just seems so weak and mundane. A powerful elder vampire is about the same as a decent owod ghoul in power, but that is just how it all works.
Mage seems to be the most exceptional, but that is because they divorced the power stats growth from the general xp pool. In werewolf, you have to decide between say a new gift, or strength, or upping that Rage. In mage, you get gnosis only xp and everything else xp.
stuff about the nWoD
And your screen name does not have anything to do with the old WoD, no?
:-))Stefan
Also the Lost Paths book for mage (IIRC) had a secret society of Tremere heritics who survived the conversion from house to clan.Hm... couldn´t find that reference at a glance, but maybe it is hidden in this book somewhere. Could you perhaps try to find that reference? I´m a long time Tremere fan, and would like any info about these bastards :-)
Stefan
It seems that this is the Maison Liban, introduced in the Sorcerer Revised Edition, according to my google findings. I will check that at home.
Stefan
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Oddly enough, if we end up doing Dark Ages, this will be the first time I've played in that setting. The only Dark Ages game I played was before the Dark Ages book came out. We just kind of winged it, using GURPS Timeline and our own knowledge of medieval times (and, obviously, there weren't any Cappadocians!).
I played a extremely violent Brujah knight templar, who was in no way inspired by the brave-but-dangerous Sir Lancelot of Monty Python fame. :)
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And your screen name does not have anything to do with the old WoD, no?
:-))Stefan
it does, on an indirect way. A friend that didn't know anything about vampire went to a convention and saw the toy, and came back and told me they made a figurine that looked exactly like me, and that's were the nickname came from.
Hmm.. More interest than I thought I would get.
If (and a BIG IF) I did do this, it would be in the Fall. I would have to limit the characters to VtM, Demon or Hunter if there was interest in playing oWoD. I never did play either Mage or Werewolf, and I don't have the books and I would feel uncomfortable playing either as Storyteller. I could do Vampire DA as well, or even the Victorian one (have those books). I have pretty much all the VtM books, most of the VDA books, most of Victorian age one as well. I have a decent collection of Hunter stuff, and the core Demon book.
I would want to make a game where the characters were new to vampirism. They could possibly have lower gens, but be 'moderns' and neophytes. They would be beholden to their parent-in-darkness, clan and such. More than likely I could do either a Camarilla vs. Sabbat chronicle, or even an Anarch vs. everybody chronicle. The characters could be any of these factions, but everyone would have to (on the face of things) BE the same faction.
I would be basing the main chronicle on the East Coast, possibly Boston (due to familiarity) or New York (as I have the sourcebook).
Thoughts?
I probably won´t have the time to join in fall this year (Feb ´10 would be more likely).
Basically, it is your call what you want to play/ST. For the sake of convenience, I would recommend using the setting you feel most comfortable with, considering that you want to play a PBP with mostly strangers. I would just vote against mixing Hunters with anything else.
Stefan
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I could go with any vampire setting. I've always run them, so this may be my first ever time playing. . .
I prefere Camarilla or Anarch over Sabbat, and Dark Ages over Victorian. Hunter I could do. Looking mostly at either Judge or Martyr. Demon, I would pass on. I just have never had any interest in DtF.
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Of the options presented, I know nothing about Demon or Hunter (other than the old 'Hunter's Hunted' books, which were standalones), so it would be Vampire all the way.
Definitely prefer Camarilla over Anarch or Sabbat, although I have played both of the other two and would be willing to do so again, if the chronicle rises above gratuitious shock-and-awe torture-porn (which Sabbat chronicles are prone to fall into, in my experience).
I'm familiar with the modern-day setting (and Boston more than New York, since it's local to me), and with Dark Ages, but not Victorian, although I've got no problem at all with trying out Victorian.
Gosh, do I miss a lot of White Wolf stuff. Vampire the Masquerade, Mage the Ascension (and especially the Technocracy!), Kindred of the East, Trinity, Aberrant, Adventure!, the Scarred Lands setting, etc. I've written sourcebooks worth of stuff for Trinity!
But, as is the way of the world, if I like it, they cancel it.
That's why Pizza Hut no longer makes priazzos. They found out I liked them. It's all my fault!
hehe I have the Wild Wild west book for WOD werewolves; least think I still do; like lot of there back in the day history stuff.
Set likes X
X gets cancelled
Set is evil
hehe works for me, but then so am I as my stuff gets cancelled too.
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hehe I have the Wild Wild west book for WOD werewolves; least think I still do; like lot of there back in the day history stuff.
Set likes X
X gets cancelled
Set is evilhehe works for me, but then so am I as my stuff gets cancelled too.
I got them all at their 'devil made me do it' sale.
Werewolf: The Wild West. Werewolf limps into the saloon "I'm lookin for the man who shot my paw."
For fuzzies I like Kinfolk and Striders. For Vamps I like Dhampyr, Dhampir, Revenants, Tzimisce in that order ;-)
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For Vamps I like Dhampyr, Dhampir, Revenants, Tzimisce in that order.
I was pretty jaded near the end of 2nd edition AD&D, and played bizarre stuff like Gnomish Giant Space Werehamsters, Xixchil and 1/2 Ogre Magi, so I promised myself to start out slow with Vampire and play with the 'basics' before moving on to the out there stuff. I made sure to play each of the seven Camarilla clans before going off and trying Caitiff, Sabbat clans or Independents (although I eventually got around to all of them but Ravnos and Giovanni!).
My Tzimisce used animalism to beach a whale, Ghouled it and then tore it apart with Vicissitude and used it's organs throughout his house. Doors had muscle tissue and would open and close as he passed, the entire place was ventilated by it's lungs, and it's heart beat in the basement, with veins and arteries running along the walls. He disposed of the 'waste' from his laboratory into it's stomach, to keep it fed. The main door to his lab had a single whale eye grown into it, trained to recognize him. The local ruler had a 'no Ghouls outside of the home' rule, so his two 'human' Ghouls had their stomachs and intestines removed and were fed by umbelical cords that linked to the whales digestive system. Even if the Ghouls cut their cords and left the lab, they'd die soon enough... (They also believed that the vampire was an alien, come to earth to perform experiments on people, and that he was making them into aliens as well, because he thought it would be funny to keep them utterly in the dark about his nature, or the existence of vampires. When in his lab, he always appeared as a 'gray' alien, just to keep up the charade.)
Vicissitude's a pretty insane Discipline. My first Tzimisce was so over the top, I think I'd want to have something a little less gross if I played one again. Perhaps an aquatic Tzimisce who has bonecrafted himself a 'castle under the sea' in the twisty warrens deep inside of a coral reef, lit by phospherescent organisms and using fleshcrafted sea critters as minions (and, perhaps, a few human Ghouls who are no longer able to survive out of the ocean, thanks to modification).
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Tzimisce get 'sterotyped' almost as much as Malkavians and their insanity when it comes to Fleshcrafting.
I played a sabbat infiltrator Tzimisce who passed himself off as a Ventrue. Dominate out at 5, he had a ghoul fleshcrafted into a duplicate of him, so he could do 'day work'. I thought about building a Tzimisce 'antitribbu' who had ghouls in a burn ward. He could feed on burn vitcims and use fleshcraft to lessen the scarring as 'payment'
My love of the 'second stringers' stemmed from getting back into WoD after an abusive marriage. I'd become quite the power gamer and found that playing the second stringer rather than a min-maxed Shadow Lord Ragbash was much more liberating.
Playing a Revenant/Dhampyr in a vampire game was similar, you get under-estimated and overlooked. The Werewolves may go and tear apart the bad guy but it was the kinfolk who smoothed over the damage, made contact with the local kinfolk, and did the information digging.
Pity I got booted from the WoD shared world game on their chat servers. My Dhampyr had a bit of static magic, but maxed out law and finance. Would have loved to see the look on the others players' face when their servants were deported and their books audited. :-)
If I was Storytelling, I would definitely pull for a Camarilla Vampire chronicle. I'd trend to modern day, at least 1990's modern day (leading up to Apocalypse, which I have sitting on my shelf unused..)
And yeah, more than likely Boston, even if canon says it's locked down by the Giovanni (that can always be scrapped)
I think that would be a good idea, Patrick - nothing wildly exotic for a start. I don´t know how much experience you have with PBP, but I guess not that much? Then using a setting you feel comfy with is a good idea to keep you sanity intact, I guess. And just use your "ignore canon" power to get what you want (Storyteller Discipline level 1 :-).
If I find the time to join, I could imagine playing a Tremere, a Gangrel or a Brujah, possibly a Malkavian as well. I just don´t get the other clans into my system somehow.
Stefan
I think that would be a good idea, Patrick - nothing wildly exotic for a start. I don´t know how much experience you have with PBP, but I guess not that much?
*snicker*
I already run four of them on these boards....
Then using a setting you feel comfy with is a good idea to keep you sanity intact, I guess. And just use your "ignore canon" power to get what you want (Storyteller Discipline level 1 :-).
If I find the time to join, I could imagine playing a Tremere, a Gangrel or a Brujah, possibly a Malkavian as well. I just don´t get the other clans into my system somehow.
Stefan
Yah, I've never done a VtM PbP, and I think you are right, stick with familiar territory, at least until I shake the rust scales off. I never agreed with the canon on Boston anyway, if there was a city the Giovanni should of had locked up it would be New York..