Notes: During a character quest based on backstory, my character is a paladin
Was in the middle of interrogating a npc via beginning to torture him (not very paladin-like, I know). This npc recognizes my character from my backstory. I decide not to kill him, but he causes me to kill him anyway.
For cinematic purposes, I unleash a wave of energy afterwards in despair and shock and then pass out. An accompanying guild member (PC) decides to use modify memory to change my memory to me killing the npc in a fit of rage.
My questions are the following:
1. Can my memory be modified if I am unconscious?
2. If yes, should I have gotten a will save (my DM denied me a will save after the fact)?
3. In what way would I be able to identify that my memory was modified and what can restore my memory to normal?
1.yes
2.yes you should have gotten a will save since the spell calls for a will save
3.This is the last sentence on the modify memory spell. "A modified memory does not necessarily affect the subject’s actions, particularly if it contradicts the creature’s natural inclinations. An illogical modified memory is dismissed by the creature as a bad dream, too much wine, or another similar excuse." So if that is not something your character would have done the memory is illogical and has no effect on your character.
doomman47 wrote: 1.yes
2.yes you should have gotten a will save since the spell calls for a will save
3.This is the last sentence on the modify memory spell. "A modified memory does not necessarily affect the subject’s actions, particularly if it contradicts the creature’s natural inclinations. An illogical modified memory is dismissed by the creature as a bad dream, too much wine, or another similar excuse." So if that is not something your character would have done the memory is illogical and has no effect on your character.
Since I was unconscious when the spell was cast, does that affect the will save in any way?
PalaceFox34 wrote: doomman47 wrote: 1.yes
2.yes you should have gotten a will save since the spell calls for a will save
3.This is the last sentence on the modify memory spell. "A modified memory does not necessarily affect the subject’s actions, particularly if it contradicts the creature’s natural inclinations. An illogical modified memory is dismissed by the creature as a bad dream, too much wine, or another similar excuse." So if that is not something your character would have done the memory is illogical and has no effect on your character.
Since I was unconscious when the spell was cast, does that affect the will save in any way? No being unconscious just bestows the helpless condition.
Unconscious creatures are knocked out and helpless. Unconsciousness can result from having negative hit points (but not more than the creature’s Constitution score), or from nonlethal damage in excess of current hit points.
A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (–5 modifier). Melee attacks against a helpless target get a +4 bonus (equivalent to attacking a prone target). Ranged attacks get no special bonus against helpless targets. Rogues can sneak attack helpless targets.
As a full-round action, an enemy can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless foe. An enemy can also use a bow or crossbow, provided he is adjacent to the target. The attacker automatically hits and scores a critical hit. (A rogue also gets his sneak attack damage bonus against a helpless foe when delivering a coup de grace.) If the defender survives, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. Delivering a coup de grace provokes attacks of opportunity.
Creatures that are immune to critical hits do not take critical damage, nor do they need to make Fortitude saves to avoid being killed by a coup de grace.
doomman47 wrote: PalaceFox34 wrote: doomman47 wrote: 1.yes
2.yes you should have gotten a will save since the spell calls for a will save
3.This is the last sentence on the modify memory spell. "A modified memory does not necessarily affect the subject’s actions, particularly if it contradicts the creature’s natural inclinations. An illogical modified memory is dismissed by the creature as a bad dream, too much wine, or another similar excuse." So if that is not something your character would have done the memory is illogical and has no effect on your character.
Since I was unconscious when the spell was cast, does that affect the will save in any way? No being unconscious just bestows the helpless condition.
Unconscious creatures are knocked out and helpless. Unconsciousness can result from having negative hit points (but not more than the creature’s Constitution score), or from nonlethal damage in excess of current hit points.
A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (–5 modifier). Melee attacks against a helpless target get a +4 bonus (equivalent to attacking a prone target). Ranged attacks get no special bonus against helpless targets. Rogues can sneak attack helpless targets.
As a full-round action, an enemy can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless foe. An enemy can also use a bow or crossbow, provided he is adjacent to the target. The attacker automatically hits and scores a critical hit. (A rogue also gets his sneak attack damage bonus against a helpless foe when delivering a coup de grace.) If the defender survives, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. Delivering a coup de grace provokes attacks of opportunity.
Creatures that are immune to critical hits do not take critical damage, nor do they need to make Fortitude saves to avoid being killed by a coup de grace. Thanks, I appreciate the help. I've seen a few posts on modify memory and some consider it something of a game-breaker with regards to roleplaying.
Does this apply?
Aiming a Spell wrote: Some spells restrict you to willing targets only. Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if you’re f lat-footed or it isn’t your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing.
kadance wrote: Does this apply?
Aiming a Spell wrote: Some spells restrict you to willing targets only. Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if you’re f lat-footed or it isn’t your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing.
Unconscious creatures don't auto fail saving throws this just allows people who want to cast harmless spells on unconscious people with out issue, there are several spells that require the target to be unconscious and require saving throws vs the effect so just because one is unconscious does not mean all hostile spells auto succeed otherwise all a villain would need to do is wait till the party falls asleep and just free dominate them one at a time and slowly kill them off and no adventuring party would ever be able to oppose the forces of evil.
As they said. Unconscious characters count as willing only for the purposes of spells that only affect willing targets.
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