Whirling Throw Feels...Wrong

[asdffghjkl01]

The Whirling Throw Monk class feat simply feels wrong. You choose a distance based on your strength score which sets the DC, however, meeting this DC only throws them 10 feet? So why does trying to throw someone 30 feet make it more difficult to throw them a total of 10?

Secondly, why do you pick a distance to throw someone, then succeed on the check only to throw them a completely different distance than you initially chose? Did I not just succeed at the action I was attempting and willingly increased the DC to do?

Solution: Change the wording on Whirling Throw and its degrees of success.
New Version: Attempt a Grapple action vs a target you already have grappled.
Success: Throw the target 10ft.
Critical Success: Throw the target 10ft + 5ft times your strength modifier.
Alternate Critical Success: Throw the target 10ft + 5ft times your strength modifier or 10ft+10ft per monk level, whichever is higher. This represents that monks master techniques as they train, using an opponent's weight and attacks against them, regardless of their personal strength, as well as their mastery of their own bodies and their Ki.

[JoelF847]

Agreed 100% - that's just not how throwing someone works. You throw them, and they go as far as you can. It should work more like jumping - you roll, and the result determines how far they go.

[Joey Cote]

JoelF847 wrote:

Agreed 100% - that's just not how throwing someone works. You throw them, and they go as far as you can. It should work more like jumping - you roll, and the result determines how far they go.

It does feel wrong because of that. Yes, on a normal success you get some result, but you could get that same result by setting the DC to its lowest value, 15, for the check.

Not sure the OP's suggestion really does anything though since it still requires a critical success to move the creature more then 10' Maybe spending a Ki point after the attack is rolled to advance the success to a critical?

Also, a bit of a tangent, but is there a rule anywhere that says a thrown creature is prone? I know that is my natural thought, but I cannot find anything in the rules that indicates that. If the damage from being thrown was called falling damage that would work but I don't see it otherwise.

[asdffghjkl01]

Joey Cote wrote:

JoelF847 wrote:

Not sure the OP's suggestion really does anything though since it still requires a critical success to move the creature more then 10' Maybe spending a Ki point after the attack is rolled to advance the success to a critical?

I made it still require a critical success to throw more than 10ft because that wasn't the issue. The issue was that deciding you want to try and throw someone 30ft instead of 10ft makes the check harder for some reason, when in either case, you should just be trying to throw as hard as possible.

With my version, you just roll to throw, a success is 10ft and a critical success is more. The DC doesn't change just because you want to throw someone further.

You could do an alternate version where success is how ever far paizo decides to allow the max distance to be, but then a critical success would have to be something like double distance/damage, and I'd be all for double damage similar to a standard attack.

[Mark Seifter]

Noted, thanks!

[asdffghjkl01]

Mark Seifter wrote:

Noted, thanks!

Wow, a post from Mark Seifter! Never thought I'd ever get one directly!

[Draco18s]

I noticed this a few weeks back, but I think the site was down at the time.

[Joey Cote]

zer0darkfire wrote:

Joey Cote wrote:

JoelF847 wrote:

Not sure the OP's suggestion really does anything though since it still requires a critical success to move the creature more then 10' Maybe spending a Ki point after the attack is rolled to advance the success to a critical?

I made it still require a critical success to throw more than 10ft because that wasn't the issue. The issue was that deciding you want to try and throw someone 30ft instead of 10ft makes the check harder for some reason, when in either case, you should just be trying to throw as hard as possible.

With my version, you just roll to throw, a success is 10ft and a critical success is more. The DC doesn't change just because you want to throw someone further.

You could do an alternate version where success is how ever far paizo decides to allow the max distance to be, but then a critical success would have to be something like double distance/damage, and I'd be all for double damage similar to a standard attack.

Ah I see. I didn't see any specific values so I wasn't seeing it as a mechanic change.

[ikarinokami]

I think a critical success should increase the damage, because you throw them harder so they hit the ground faster. and a critical failure should result in either you being thrown or you falling prone, that's basically what happens if you critically fail a throw.

[asdffghjkl01]

It would be nice to also see a line about throwing someone into a wall if you don't have enough room to throw them further. Normally I'd say that would probably hurt more, but just for balance, I'd say it should deal the same damage as if you threw them the full distance.