Adjudicating Greater Disarm

[Balkoth]

I have a player who is interested in this feat, but I had some questions...

1, how do you determine the random direction? Pick a cardinal direction with a d4? Pick one of the eight main directions (N, NE, E, SE, S, SW, W, NW) with a d8? Roll a d100, multiply by 3.6, take your best guess?

2, what happens if it goes diagonally (such as to the northeast)? Does it go two squares or three squares? Normally two squares would be 15 feet but that would also mean the disarmee could 5' step and retrieve the weapon (while the weapon flying north would require 10' of movement).

3, how does this interact with Weapon Cords? Does the disarmer have to cut the weapon cord first to have the weapon fly away?

Any other weird interactions I should know? Thanks!

[merpius]

For #3, yes, the weapon cord would prevent the weapon from flying away.

for #1 & #2 I'm not sure it is precisely RAW, but they probably intended that you use the Thrown Splash Weapon "missed the target" rules. If so, then it would be a d8, with 1 indicating towards the disarmer. Since Greater Disarm specifies a distance in feet, I would use that as if it were movement; so, if it is on a diagonal it would move 2 squares away (so they still couldn't simply 5 ft step and be on the square); if it is one of the straigth directions it would be 3 squares.

It is worth noting, however, that none of my answer for #1 & #2 is strictly RAW; it would be RAI at best. Perhaps someone else has a citation that doesn't require making a jump to a "similar" situation.

[Balkoth]

merpius wrote:

Since Greater Disarm specifies a distance in feet, I would use that as if it were movement; so, if it is on a diagonal it would move 2 squares away (so they still couldn't simply 5 ft step and be on the square); if it is one of the straigth directions it would be 3 squares.

You can pick up an item if it's within your reach. Meaning on a diagonal you could 5 foot step and pick up the item (while straight directions would require 10 feet of movement). That's my concern. You would expect the same behavior in both cases.

[merpius]

Hmm, IC. I still think it is likely that the 15 ft should be counted as movement, but, given that that part is still well within RAI territory, a GM could decide the other way.

I think, tactically, treating it as "3 squares", rather than 15' probably makes more sense; it makes it consistent WRT attacks of opporunity; if the disarmed person wants to get thier thing they are going to have to make a move action to move (drawing an attack of opportunity for leaving a threatened square), and, for certain squares, a potential second AoO for picking the thing up (using thier standard as a move action to do so). Given that, if you're playing at all a reasonably highly tactical game, then it probably should be read as 3 squares, rather than 15'.

My reasoning for thinking it is likely that is should be counted as movement instead is that it is specified as feet, rather than squares; that's it. No game balance reasoning at all, simply that it is closer to RAW (ie the wording is in feet).

[blahpers]

1. I've always seen d8 for "pick a random direction"-type rules, same as when you have to adjudicate a missed splash weapon. But it could just as easily be "spin this pencil on the table" or something.
2. Diagonally, 15 feet is two squares. Yes, this means the disarmee can 5-foot-step and retrieve the weapon, assuming it didn't end up over a cliff or something.
3. A weapon cord would prevent the weapon from flying 15 feet. The weapon cord would need to be sundered or otherwise destroyed first.

[Balkoth]

blahpers wrote:

2. Diagonally, 15 feet is two squares. Yes, this means the disarmee can 5-foot-step and retrieve the weapon, assuming it didn't end up over a cliff or something.

So why does the effect differ based on whether you roll odds or evens on the d8?

[blahpers]

The effect doesn't differ. The weapon travels 15 feet either way. The available methods for dealing with the situation, however, do differ.

The fault for this lies not with the feat but with how Pathfinder handles tactical movement and placement. This causes all sorts of shenanigans, such as the old "approach a pike-wielding defender diagonally to avoid provoking an attack of opportunity", which Paizo had to explicitly patch up back in 2014. Mathematically, there's no perfect way to handle this using a system where both movement and placement must be measured in 5-foot units and where diagonal movement is allowed. It's just a matter of what point the game designer decides that it's good enough.