So yeah , I created an archetype for the barbarian that focuses on more on rogue-like versatility lowerig the damage and changing HP defenses for AC defenses here it is
Uncanny barbarian.
The Strenght of many tricks
the uncanny barbarian gains 6+skills and adds Disable Device (Dex), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex),Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Stealth (Dex), Knowledge (local)
and losses , Knowledge(nature) (Int), , Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis)
Light Weight
Uncanny barbarians are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, short sword, and shortbow. They are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.
this alters the barbarian armor and weapon proficiencies.
Uncanny Rage
At 1rst level an uncanny barbarian can rage for 4+ her Dex modifier. For each level after 1st she possesses , the barbarian can rage for 2 additional rounds.
While in rage , the barbarian gains +4 morale bonus to her Strenght and Dexterity as well as +20 ft movement.. While in rage a barbarian can only use Dexterity or Strenght based skills.
An uncanny barbarian wearing medium or heavy armor can not use uncanny rage.
(ok)
A barbarian can end her rage as a free action and is exhausted after a number of rounds 2 times the numbers spend in rage.
this alters barbarian rage feature.
Evasión
At level 2 The barbarian gains the evasion class feature.
This substitutes the rage power gained at level 2.
Trapfinding.
The barbarian gains the trapfinding class feature at level 3
This substitutes Trap Sens gained at level 3,6,9,12,15,18
Fast Strike.
At levels 6, 10, 14, 18 can learn one type of Fast Strike, whenever she makes a full attack , she can designate one strike as a style strike. Those styles are selected from the Style Strike list of the unchained monk. Those attacks have to be made with a light weapon or the fist.
Flying Kick: It's a dash.
Elbow Smash: this is made with the handle of the weapon
...
this replaces the rage powers gained at lvl 6,10,14,18.
Enhanced Reflexes.
At level 7 a uncanny barbarian gains +1 to dodge AC , at level 10 and every 3 levels thereafter the bonus increases by 1,
the rage power damage reduction gives dodge AC instead of DR
this replaces damage reduction
Improved evassion
At level 8 The barbarian gains the evasion class feature
this substitutes the rage power gained at level 8
Greater Uncanny Rage
At 11th level, when a barbarian enters rage, the morale bonus to her Strength and Dexterity increases to +6 and the movement bonus increases to +40
Indomitable March
At lvl 17 The uncanny barbarian gains immunity to fatigue and exhaustion
this replaces tireless rage.
Lightning Rage
At 20th level, when a barbarian enters rage, the morale bonus to her Strength and Dexterity increases to +8 and the movement bonus increases to +60
The uncanny barbarian still gains rage powers at lvl 4,12,16 and can still chosse the extra rage power feat.
What do you think?Should I reduce the HD to 10? Any nerf or buff to an ability ?
This is a cool idea. I do believe an HD of 10 would be appropriate though, as it gets a lot of its abilities from a d8 class. Because of this power, it may just need to not have the fast strike feats.
This would actually make TWF barbarian a great thing, on account of the full BAB.
Just thinking, a half-orc uncanny barbarian would be able to absolutely dominate with the orc-horn bow. A reach barb with combat reflexes (maybe with exotic weapon proficiency (fauchard)) would be sweet too.
DP ypu consider the fast strike feats an improvement or a downgrade from the rage powers?
I mean , flying kick its awesome , but the others are somehow equal or weaker than a rage power
This is a concept I am interested in. I have played a barbarian rogue, and have created something on the flip side of it - a nature themed rogue archetype. My thought on this overall is that you have made pretty significant changes to the base class. You’re bordering on creating a hybrid class, as opposed to an archetype.
SKILLS
The extra skill points and altered list are good, but I think the chosen skills need work. I like the idea of the barbarian sneaking around, but picking locks seems odd. Also, a barbarian without survival is a stretch off the imagination - to me at least.
PROFICIENCIES
I would actually be in favor of allowing all martial weapons, but if you want to have a custome list so as to put abilities elsewhere, don’t just use the rogue’s list. Why would a full-BAB class with a Strength boosting ability be using a hand crossbow, sap, and short sword? Perhaps rapier, longsword, warhammer, scimitar, and shortbow? Just an idea.
UNCANNY RAGE
I strongly suggest basing this on the unchained barbarian’s rage instead of the original CRB rage. I also suggest keying the duration off of Constitution. rage is physically demanding. I assuse this archetype stilll gets the the barbarian’s fast movement ability? You’ve slapped on an addition +20 ft. Seems like overkill, and at higher levels it gets higher. The monk also gets a significant speed boost, but the monk’s is an enhancement bonus. Perhaps yours could be the same.
TRAPFINDING
Trap sense seems a better fit to my imagination.
You stripped away quite a most of what makes the barbarian. It’s most work, but I think you should rewrite this as a new class instead of trying to force the concept into an existing one.
Ciaran Barnes wrote: This is a concept I am interested in. I have played a barbarian rogue, and have created something on the flip side of it - a nature themed rogue archetype. My thought on this overall is that you have made pretty significant changes to the base class. You’re bordering on creating a hybrid class, as opposed to an archetype.
There are quite a few archetypes in game that drastically overhaul a class so this is much of a non issue.
Ciaran Barnes wrote:
SKILLS
The extra skill points and altered list are good, but I think the chosen skills need work. I like the idea of the barbarian sneaking around, but picking locks seems odd. Also, a barbarian without survival is a stretch off the imagination - to me at least.
The whole idea of the archetype is to make it more rogue like if they didn't get disable device what would be the point? Plus the urban barbarian loses access to similar skills so I don't see an issue with the class skills lost.
Ciaran Barnes wrote:
PROFICIENCIES
I would actually be in favor of allowing all martial weapons, but if you want to have a custome list so as to put abilities elsewhere, don’t just use the rogue’s list. Why would a full-BAB class with a Strength boosting ability be using a hand crossbow, sap, and short sword? Perhaps rapier, longsword, warhammer, scimitar, and shortbow? Just an idea.
I agree on this one they need more martial proficiencies.
Ciaran Barnes wrote:
UNCANNY RAGE
I strongly suggest basing this on the unchained barbarian’s rage instead of the original CRB rage. I also suggest keying the duration off of Constitution. rage is physically demanding. I assuse this archetype stilll gets the the barbarian’s fast movement ability? You’ve slapped on an addition +20 ft. Seems like overkill, and at higher levels it gets higher. The monk also gets a significant speed boost, but the monk’s is an enhancement bonus. Perhaps yours could be the same.
Aside from solving sudden barbarian death syndrome unchained barbarian is strictly worse than the normal barbarian so having it be based on normal barbarian stuff makes the class much more viable. As for the speed boost I don't see an issue with it and to be honest the monk speed boost should have also been an untyped bonus to speed instead of enhancement since its working on making yourself better instead of getting magical abilities to allow you to move faster.
Ciaran Barnes wrote:
TRAPFINDING
Trap sense seems a better fit to my imagination.
It really should get trap finding and danger sense instead of just trap sense.
Ciaran Barnes wrote:
You stripped away quite a most of what makes the barbarian. It’s most work, but I think you should rewrite this as a new class instead of trying to force the concept into an existing one.
This is what archetypes do though they change what makes the base class the base class. Their idea fits perfectly into what archetypes were designed to do.
Jasper873 wrote: What do you think? Should I reduce the HD to 10? Any nerf or buff to an ability ? No leave it at d12 it will be fine, should change their rage to make it so it fatigue instead of exhausted and keep tireless rage the same.
I know what archetypes do, and most of them replace only a few features. Your changes are more significant and I think you would enjoy more creative freedom in putting together a new class. It’s difficult but people do it all the time. You have enough material to make a good start of it. Also, you would benefit from opening yourself discussing criticism instead of dismissing it.
Just be a regular Urban Barbarian who alternatives levels in uRogue -- it'll give you most of what you're looking for and average 6 skills/level. Quote: While in rage , the barbarian gains +4 morale bonus to her Strenght and Dexterity as well as +20 ft movement. Except that, which the game (or any prudent GM) is unlikely to give you for obvious reasons. (Dipping SavTech is already broke enough as it is in martials, and that archetype is worthless beyond 1st level.)
Okey, so lets go(sorry I was out and couldn't answer properly by
phone,thanks for the feedback);
First of all, clarify that i'm the GM so , whatever i give to my players they would be mostly accept it. Im making this for a player that loves Rogues (but its also pretty bad with the rules and game balance) and for fleshing out a really big campaing im working on. That said , I highly doubt that my players abuse a 1 lvl dip, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut , I still will love it to make it balanced.
About the speed , yeph , it's somehow an overkill. I'm thinking on turn it down to +15, +30 ,+45 keeping initial +10 boost and as an untyped bonus.
In Trapfinding area , the idea is to make it as good as the rogue.
About the proficiencies , yeph ,the idea was to limit somehow the damage potential , so what do you think guys of just allowing one handed martial weapons? Or maybe another way to limit the damage? In case that damage doesn't end up beeing a problem, I would probably give it full martial proficiencies.
As I see, there's seems to be no problem with the fast strike abilitys.
Also , something I fear is that this archetype may lead to an AC monster for the DEX bonus and the bonus to AC (instead of DR/-) What do you think?
I like both 6 skills and the d10 idea.Also keeping it as an archetype of the barbarian , even if it is a radical modification.
The other option will be; make it an hybrid of rogue/barbarian; Dex to damage as the unchained rogue , alter rage powers and rogue talents.
Thankss again for the feedback
Ciaran Barnes wrote: I know what archetypes do, and most of them replace only a few features. Your changes are more significant and I think you would enjoy more creative freedom in putting together a new class. It’s difficult but people do it all the time. You have enough material to make a good start of it. Also, you would benefit from opening yourself discussing criticism instead of dismissing it. 1) Quite a few archetypes trade out a vast majority of class features and like 90% of all fighter archetypes trade out the base class features so no an archetype trading out all or nearly all class features doesn't ruin a class or make it so it would be better suited as a new class.
2) You seem to be under the impression that I am the Op, I am not and they are still open to plenty of suggestions. I was simply responding to you as I felt the changes you were suggesting to what they currently had to be making what I view as a decently balanced archetype into one that loses out more than it gains.
Jasper873 wrote: About the proficiencies , yeph ,the idea was to limit somehow the damage potential , so what do you think guys of just allowing one handed martial weapons? Or maybe another way to limit the damage? In case that damage doesn't end up beeing a problem, I would probably give it full martial proficiencies. I wouldn't give them full martial proficiencies but all simple and some of the iconic weapons for rogues and some of the iconic weapons for barbarians should be on the list so things like a great sword, great axe and great club should be on the list but avoid things less associated with either of the classes like lances and other such weapons.
Jasper873 wrote:
Also , something I fear is that this archetype may lead to an AC monster for the DEX bonus and the bonus to AC (instead of DR/-) What do you think?
Not really an issue, there are ways out side of catching something flat footed to make things attack vs flat foot ac, and its only a small amount of ac they get for losing their dr they are not likely to have more ac than a properly build monk or fighter or even a paladin, though they will be better suited for dealing with touch attacks than most except for maybe the monk.
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