So, reviewing the requirements and powers of this feat, it seemed a little too good to be true, espescially in light of a high level campaign where you mostly fight High Natural AC monsters.
But I get ahead of myself; this feat allows you to make a stunning fist attack attempt as a melee touch attack, 1/round. It requires an 8th level monk with Weapon Finesse. It states it can't be used in conjunction with Power Attack.
So, given the sorts of monsters one fights at high level, this seems like a 1/round garaunteed hit, and doesn't mess up your other attacks in a FoB the way the One Touch Ki Ability does.
Am I missing something here? Why isn't it on more class guides?
It's from 3.5 by way of the pre-ISWG PF Chronicles Campaign Setting, not "real" Pathfinder, hence isn't legal at most PF tables.
Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote: It's from 3.5 by way of the pre-ISWG PF Chronicles Campaign Setting, not "real" Pathfinder, hence isn't legal at most PF tables.
Ahh, okay that's what I was afraid of, given the established patterns of turning melee to melee touch in other abilitied this seemed out of whack.
So, this feat this wouldn't be "PFS Legal" in sanctioned play, and althpugh published by Paizo woupdn't be considered Pathfinder legal. Drat
Thanks for the explanation.
VoodistMonk wrote: It's a good feat, but it panders mostly towards the use of Stunning Fist. Which, while nice, isn't the focal point of a lot of builds. The ability to convert uses of Stunning Fist into additional CMB is also pretty niche, although it is a cool ability granted by the feat.
All in all, it let's you swing at touch AC for as many times as you can use Stunning Fist in a day. It has its place, but it's not a too good to be true should be in every build feat.
I agree it's not a mandatory or broken feat, but I feel like the utility of most feats will vary buly build anyway.
For reference though, it does seem espescially useful at high levels. With so many high CR monsters relying almost completely on Natural Armor, this feat can reduce Whiff rounds considerably.
As for the stunning effect... ehhh, again at high level most opponents have ludicrous fort saves or outright stun immunity, so I'm more concerned with this feats ability to tap out a garaunteed hit 1/round.
Additionally, at the point you're needing to get past high CR monsters with this touch attack you'll have more stunning attempts per day than you know what to do with.
Halcyon_Janissary wrote: Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote: It's from 3.5 by way of the pre-ISWG PF Chronicles Campaign Setting, not "real" Pathfinder, hence isn't legal at most PF tables.
Ahh, okay that's what I was afraid of, given the established patterns of turning melee to melee touch in other abilitied this seemed out of whack.
So, this feat this wouldn't be "PFS Legal" in sanctioned play, and althpugh published by Paizo woupdn't be considered Pathfinder legal. Drat
Thanks for the explanation. There are PFS legal versions of this ability in Pathfinder (and not 3.5), but they were nerfed. The Champion of Irori gets One Finger which lets it target touch AC with an unarmed strike as a standard action. The Unchained Monk also has access to the ki power One Touch which functions the same as the champion of irori feature but requires the monk to have 1 ki point, adds half monk level to damage, and allows the monk to spend a ki point to double this bonus to damage. Also, it requires monk level twelve. It is a bit weak, though nice for delivering stunning fists if you had to use your move action anyway.
Quote: There are PFS legal versions of this ability in Pathfinder (and not 3.5), but they were nerfed. The Champion of Irori gets One Finger which lets it target touch AC with an unarmed strike as a standard action. The Unchained Monk also has access to the ki power One Touch which functions the same as the champion of irori feature but requires the monk to have 1 ki point, adds half monk level to damage, and allows the monk to spend a ki point to double this bonus to damage. Also, it requires monk level twelve. It is a bit weak, though nice for delivering stunning fists if you had to use your move action anyway. Eeeh, the thing about stunning fist and touch attacks is high Natural Armor and high fort saves go hand in hand. Chances are if the monsters AC is high enough that you need to invest resources to ignore Natural Armor (which is the bulk of protection for any tank or boss monster) the fortitude save on the opponent is also hella high.
Not broken or a design flaw, just a natural consequence of big monsters having high fortitude + high natural armor.
One Touch and One Finger are kinda effective for those moments where you gotta chase the monster down, but they're a hella lot less... action adaptable than doing it on any old stunning attack, which would allow it during AoOpp and Full Attacks.
One and only one garaunteed hit isn't much, but it's a nice boon to get one garaunteed hit in when you're laying down five others besides.
So,sounds like I'm going to my original plan of Combat Style Master to get Snake up asap (and save on those precious immediate actions).
Still, thanks for the suggestions!
Halcyon_Janissary wrote: So, reviewing the requirements and powers of this feat, it seemed a little too good to be true, espescially in light of a high level campaign where you mostly fight High Natural AC monsters. Alternative:
1) Take VMC: Magus
2) Select Ki Arcana at 7th level
3) Pick Extra Arcana feat at 9th level, selecting Accurate Strike
4) Take Ki Power: Qinggong Power and select Ki Leech at 10th level (or instead of Diamond Body at 11th level, for cMonk)
5) Make every attack against touch AC (for the price of all your swift actions)
All in all, I'd allow the feat for cMonk, but not for unMonk. Hell, after suffering through 12 levels of playing the cMonk NPC class, you could give it to them for free! At that level, Barbarians can pounce and fly if they want to, Paladins can Raise Dead without material components, and even Fighters can add Brilliant Energy (or almost any other weapon enchantment, which can allow them to cast fly at el.) to their weapon as a standard action.
Neat, but prolly not worth the five feat + all swift action sacrifice xD
When it comes to dealing damage, it's significantly above other styles. You also gain the regular abilities of Arcane Pool, i,e, enchanting your weapons - nothing too shabby!
Did I mention that you could also grab Flamboyant Arcana to have de facto infinite Opportune Parry and Riposte to buff your defense?
Parry maybe. Riposte? Not so much.
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